Dish (not lnb) seems incompatible with receiver - is this possible?

Lazarus

Lazarus

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80cm Motorised.
Several small Dishes.
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Sounds to me like the problem will lie at the F Socket on the IView box.

Either it's poorly connected (dry joint?) to its PCB, or the inner receptacle is slightly too short or even too large in diameter to make proper contact with the centre core of the incoming coax.

Try re-terminating the male connectors with an extra few mm of inner core and try bending that core a little to create better contact.
 
jeallen01

jeallen01

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Sounds to me like the problem will lie at the F Socket on the IView box.

Either it's poorly connected (dry joint?) to its PCB, ...
Had that problem with a different receiver - but resoldering the F-connector socket solidly to the PCB cured it.

A "good" clue to that problem would be if you can simply "wobble" it by hand! :rolleyes:
 
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Had that problem with a different receiver - but resoldering the F-connector socket solidly to the PCB cured it.

A "good" clue to that problem would be if you can simply "wobble" it by hand :D
Thanks very much guys, I've just tried wobbling both F socket in the bedroom and the living room they both seem solid. I think its unlikely that I would be experiencing the same problem with both of them. Especially since the blade media box works perfectly with them both. It definitely worth a look though. I would have to admit that they were both in the house before I moved in, I don't know how much effort would have gone into installing them.

Thanks for the tip
 
ozumo

ozumo

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Did you check the length of the central core of the F-connector which connects to the box? As rolfw said the iview box may require the central core to poke out further in order to make a good electrical connection with the box. The central core could need to poke out as much as 5mm past the edge of the F-connector.

edit: oops others got there first while I was typing but I'll leave this up just incase.
 
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
The two need to be at the same elevation or things like signal bounce can affect one but not the other, if you don't have an elevation meter or other device to measure the elevation on both then a string with a weight on the end and a simple protractor* can be used, if the two are off by more then several degrees then your looking at alignment problems.

The one at the house is picking up something that the one at the shed is not.

*Simple protractor.....https://www.inchcalculator.com/printable-protractor-download/


Female to female??? do you mean an "F" barrel connector? If this is the case then the two systems have a different coax setup, the "F" connector is adding additional signal loss at the house, also check the color of the "F" connectors internal insulation, if it's white then the connector is the wrong type for satellite work, the correct splice "F" connector should have a blue or green center insulator, this type will have less signal loss at the IF frequency's used in satellite work. (900 MHz to 2.5 GHz)

The ones with a white insulator are only rated out to around 900 MHz and are used for TV or cable TV signals.
I'm just back in from checking out the satellite elevations, I used a laser level. There was no line of sight, so I marked a tree as a reference point. Looks like the shed is around 1.5 metres higher than the house satellite. I'll mount the new house satellite at the same elevation as the shed. Thanks again for the tip.
 
Lazarus

Lazarus

Tout Rond Bon Oeuf
Staff member
Messages
26,018
My Satellite Setup
80cm Motorised.
Several small Dishes.
Much else.
My Location
North York Moors
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Did you check the length of the central core of the F-connector which connects to the box? As rolfw said the iview box may require the central core to poke out further in order to make a good electrical connection with the box. The central core could need to poke out as much as 5mm past the edge of the F-connector.

edit: oops others got there first while I was typing but I'll leave this up just incase.
Hey, thanks mate, I should have mentioned this. This was the first thing I tried, I've tried different lengths of cores, different cables but it doesn't seem to make a difference at all.
 
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Sounds to me like the problem will lie at the F Socket on the IView box.

Either it's poorly connected (dry joint?) to its PCB, or the inner receptacle is slightly too short or even too large in diameter to make proper contact with the centre core of the incoming coax.

Try re-terminating the male connectors with an extra few mm of inner core and try bending that core a little to create better contact.
Oh wow, this went over my head, Oh yeah, If the satellite doesn't work I'll open up the box. The fact that it works consistently in the shed makes me tend to suspect the connection is OK, but if I can't fix it I am definitely going to open this box up for dissection - even if it is only for revenge!
 
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Questions:
How far apart are the two dish's from each other????

And are they at the same elevations or are they at different heights above ground??

And are the two dish's the same size or different??

Are the two coax runs the same type of coax, are they the same length, are the two systems both grounded?

If the Shed/House LNB combo works with the Iview receiver, then something is causing a loss of signal at the house dish that is not affecting the Blade Media receiver.

The two receivers may have differant tuner inputs, the one in the Media receiver is rejecting or attenuating what ever is affecting the Iview receiver at the house.
Terryl,

I'd like to follow this up a bit further, Its just occurred to me that the Blade media box has a three core plug and is most likley earthed through the mains. The iview HD box only has a 2 core plug and is not earthed.
The shed is a steel frame and corrugated steel walls, so the satellite dish would be effectively earthed through the structure. This is fairly indicative that your theory on the earthing is on the money. How should I go about earthing the satellite for the house? (edit spelling)

Update - Googled it. I'll do this tomorrow!
 
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jeallen01

jeallen01

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Depends on what material the case of the ivew box is made of :
- if the case is metal then loosen a screw somewhere on the (probably back) panel, and connect a single core cable (or the Green/Yellow core in a 3-core cable) to the Earth pin in a 13A plug which is then plugged into a mains socket near the receiver.
- if the case is non-metallic, then see if you can make some sort of connection between the outer shield on the sat cable and connect it as above - could involve adding another "bullet" coupler in that cable and with two nuts on one threaded part and then sandwich a flat "ring connector" between the 2 nuts and with a cable connected as above.

FWIW, the between the cable to the 13A plug doesn't need to be that large at all as it is just there to make sure that there is no potential difference between the house mains Earth circuits and the "negative" rail of the receiver circuits.

OTOH, if the dish/shed is a long distance from the house, then there is still likely to be a potential difference between the house Earthing system and the shed and the ground around it - "life's like that"! My "sat farm" is about 25m from the house and the sheathes of the LNB cables are connected to the 2 long poles, with the steerable dishes on them, which are firmly set in the ground - and yet I occasionally get a slight "nip" from the sheath of one of those cables when it is not connected to a cable to the house or to the 16-1 DiSEqC switch (the Grounding terminal terminal of which is also directly connected to one of those poles)!!

In that situation, a possible solution might be to electrically isolate the dish from the shed - would need some sort of insulation around the bolts (or even using non-metallic - e.g. nylon - bolts) securing the dish to the shed??
 
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ozumo

ozumo

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318
My Satellite Setup
4x zone 2, 3x channel master 90cm, 1x channel master 1.2m
My Location
South Durham
Its just occurred to me that the Blade media box has a three core plug and is most likley earthed through the mains. The iview HD box only has a 2 core plug and is not earthed.
Are you sure that Blade Media box is earthed through the 3rd pin? Every 12v dc power adapter I've have across recently only has a plastic earth pin, whose only use is to allow the other 2 pins to be inserted into the socket (hence why the earth pin is slightly longer on a UK plug) :)
 
A

a33

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XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
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NL
Its just occurred to me that the Blade media box has a three core plug and is most likley earthed through the mains. The iview HD box only has a 2 core plug and is not earthed.
In that case it is likely that the LNB-current does not flow through the cable (back and forth), but (back) through the earth connection of the house (which is not meant to be!), in the case of your three-core-plug.

See:
When you do have signal strength = 0, with some boxes (not all react the same) that means no (DC) current is able to flow to the LNB.
So also check your cables and connections for conductive continuity,
Do you have a volt-meter at your disposal? Or a satellite-beeper? Or a 12V 5W (low power!) car light bulb or so, to test at what part of your cables you have the continuity problem?
(I usually prefer testing, before 'doing' anything.
Others might start with renewing all the F-plug-connections, or renewing all cables, without testing beforehand. It's up to you...)

Greetz,
A33
 
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lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Guys, just a quick update. I installed a new satellite at the same elevation as the shed satellite. I grounded the satellite though the building mains. This improved the Blade media reception to around 82% signal strength and 80% quality. So happy days!, but had absolutely no impact on the iview HD box. Still 0%, 0%.

I have checked at each of the 4 cables coming out of the LNB, they each go into a different room. Every room is the same. 80%, 80% on the blade media box, 0%, 0% on the iview HD box.

Its occurred to me that the the shed set up is just a cable from the LNB straight to the satellite received box, so maybe back to the earlier points that there is some incompatibility with the connectors and the iview HD box.

My next course of action is to set up a screen and a bring the iview box into the attic to connect it to a cable that goes directly to the LNB and see what happens.
 
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
In that case it is likely that the LNB-current does not flow through the cable (back and forth), but (back) through the earth connection of the house (which is not meant to be!), in the case of your three-core-plug.

See:


Do you have a volt-meter at your disposal? Or a satellite-beeper? Or a 12V 5W (low power!) car light bulb or so, to test at what part of your cables you have the continuity problem?
(I usually prefer testing, before 'doing' anything.
Others might start with renewing all the F-plug-connections, or renewing all cables, without testing beforehand. It's up to you...)

Greetz,
A33
Thanks for this mate, I have access to a multi meter, do you reckon just set it to continuity and put one probe on the core of a cable connected to the wall socket and another to the core of the cable at the LNB and see if it bleeps?
 
A

a33

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XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
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Checking a cable:
1. Disconnect both ends of the cable.
2. Measure between core and shield: should be infinite resistance.
3. Create a short at one end of the cable (just during this testing procedure). Then measure between core and shield at the other end of the cable: should be very low resistance (preferably less than one ohm), because it is shorted now at the other end.

I think step nr 3 might be the problem in you case.

If so, then first try to check the cable at the F-connectors. Very often the shield/earth connection to the F-plug is not good anymore. So with cutting off the connector or turning it loose, you can try to do step 3 again, directly at the cable (without F-plug).

This way you can check if you can find which cable might be faulty (you have two shorter cables, connected with barrel connector, if I recall right?). And probably set the F-connector anew (with cable a few centimeters shorter), if the connector-cable connection was the problem.

Otherwise (if the connectors are still fitted OK) there might be a breaking somewhere in the cable (look for too sharp bends!).

greetz,
A33
 
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Hi guys, I'm still working on this :oops:.... So quick update, I got a few minutes today and went to the attic with the two satellite receivers, a multimeter and a monitor. I followed Greetz advice (thanks Greetz) and checked for continuity. performed as expected. Infinite resistance between core and shield, when I shorted them at one end, there was continuity between them at the other.

I checked the two receivers on two cables straight from the satellite dish. Both the same result, great reception with the blade media box, no signal for the iview HD box. That means my connectors are not the issue. I scratched my head a little bit and checked the cables. They are 75 ohm RG6U cables with the aluminium wire braiding.

Now I went to the shed and checked out the cable I used there. I can't see any marking on it, but it has copper wire braiding. I think there is a good chance I used RG59 cable in the shed because I had tonnes of it when I put up that dish.....

Now, It is a long shot, but I am starting to suspect the iview HD box is incompatible with the RG6U cables with the aluminium wire braiding... Next step is to go to my stash of RG59 cable and try routing that from the satellite dish to the iview HD box to see if that rectifies things.
 
A

a33

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XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
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rolfw

rolfw

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RG59 is very high loss at IF frequencies, not really designed for it.
 
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Are you sure that Blade Media box is earthed through the 3rd pin? Every 12v dc power adapter I've have across recently only has a plastic earth pin, whose only use is to allow the other 2 pins to be inserted into the socket (hence why the earth pin is slightly longer on a UK plug) :)
I'm not sure, but part of the body of the blade media box is steel. I could be wrong here, but I think that all electric components with conductive frames require an earth cable.
 
lazy_magician

lazy_magician

Member
Messages
24
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
How many ohms did your meter read, while testing that?
Hey, the core was 1 ohm and the jacket was higher, I think it was around 2 ohms. To be honest, when I heard the multi-meter beep for continuity, i figured I was OK. Is it worth re-checking? What value would you expect?
 
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