Egis in polarmount and multifeed system for ku and c band

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mirko73

Member
Messages
26
My Satellite Setup
GIBERTINI 150 -SMR 1224
My Location
ITALY
good evening to all,
I'm considering installing a new antenna over 2 meters instead of my Gibertini 150 powered by Jaeger Smr 1224.
The aim is to preserve the KU and C bands in a range of 180° , considering Wimax / 5G interference in my place of residence (Milan) and antenna location on top floor of my building .

My plan is to use EGIS robot in polarmount mode, i.e. welded bracket at the masttop inclined according to my latitude (aprox. 45°) and a bracket in the back of the antenna with an inclination of at least 10 degrees plus an angle of declination (in order to reach sats at the extremes with an elevation lower than the minimum 10 degrees provided by the EGIS).
Something similar to Dx Bozoth adapter for EGIS.

Main advantages of this assembly are declination motor to correct pointing defects, self-adjust of Lnb skew along Clarke belt and engine stress reduction.

So I have to plan activities and materials well based on real possibilities to implement such a system !

I ask the more experienced the best PFA antennas over 2 mt and optimal f / d ratio in order to implement a multifeed system i.e. Ku Lnb in focus point and two slightly out of focus C band Lnb with waveguide and polarizer for circular signals plus wimax filters.

In the project I will be supported by an installer to whom I must give correct indications to support me in the construction of the system!

I look forward to advice and indications from all experts on the optimal configuration and the components to be assembled.

Thanks for your help
 
RimaNTSS

RimaNTSS

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Some SAT-related hardware.
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Hi @mirko73 ! Welcome to the forum! Dou you already have EGIS motor and 2m antenna or you just looking forward to get them?
 
M

mirko73

Member
Messages
26
My Satellite Setup
GIBERTINI 150 -SMR 1224
My Location
ITALY
Hi @mirko73 ! Welcome to the forum! Dou you already have EGIS motor and 2m antenna or you just looking forward to get them?
Hi,
as explained in the post I’m looking forward to expert advices on optimal configuration for multifeed with EGIS in Polarmount, cause I’m planning to buy the equipment only after a serious analysis of single components.
My purpose is assembling Egis in polarmount on a maximum 2,4 m PF antenna with feed for Ku/C band .
Considering I have a Titanium ASC1 for polarization control, I want to know if possible to assemble a feed with waveguide and polarotor with a single slightly out of focus C band Lnb .

Thank you and Merry Christmas!
 
RimaNTSS

RimaNTSS

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Some SAT-related hardware.
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N-E from Riga
I do not think that there are big variety of 2.4m PFA available on the market. I may be lucky if you find one, so then you will have only one F/D available. But why PFA? Why not an offset?
On offset antenna it is easier to make multifeeds.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

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The 1224 should be suitable for the larger dish, and they can be adapted to an elevation drive at little cost.
The Titanium box is going to be the item that disappoints unless extensive internal modifications are carried out.

Why do you think the Egis is going to give you more ?
 
M

mirko73

Member
Messages
26
My Satellite Setup
GIBERTINI 150 -SMR 1224
My Location
ITALY
@RimaNTSS
A PFA is normally equipped with a Corotor but this option is not good for me because KU band 's reception would have a loss of aprox 30% .:angry:
You're right when saying an Offset can be easily adapted for multifeed but in Asia and Brazil (where wimax / 5G interferences are big problem for C Band's reception) many Dxer use a PFA (low F/D RATIO) + multifeed system + special filtered Lnbs !:cool:

@Channel Hopper
My Smr 1224 has no EL and maximum weight is aprox 40 kg (my Gibertini 150 weights 25kg)... a limit in mounting a larger antenna on it at the roof of a building !
Perhaps Laminas AS-1800 could be mounted on 1224 but no real improvement in C band due to small antenna 's diameter ...:confused
Finally a problem with Smr 1224 and reed sensors is mis-counting in conjunction with V-box …. many times I've to shift V-box ...

Titanium Asc1 is ok to use in disecq 1.2 with my Dreambox 920 uhd and I'll test pulsi syncronization with 1224 all around Clarke belt!

Which kinds of modifications for ASC1 ?

In a wimax contest as mine the effective range of reachable signals in C band could be extended to 3,7-4,8 Ghz ….
this means a larger antenna (minimum 2,4 PF) and a special receiving equipment
- Feed (Av-comm )
- waveguide
- polarotor Wideband (Chaparral?)
- 1 filtered Lnb for 3,4-4,8 Ghz (Smw ? Norsat? Greatek?)

Using Egis in Polarmount mode, I could position C Band feed a little bit lower or higher than Ku band feed and Egis control of declination would make possible auto-focus of C Band Lnb to reach maximum of signals.

The up-defined solution is probably better than adopting a Feed inserted in OMT transition and multiple Lnb's to reach signals in different polarities (this causes storing several positions in Egis controller and Titanium).

Egis robot in Polarmount mode makes possible this system:
- single Feed for Ku band with no need of a polarotor but only a Voltage Switching Lnb for polarity control (V/H)
- single feed for C Band (uo-defined solution = waveguide + polarotor + 1 Voltage Switching filtered Lnb ) to reach lower SR by using declination to auto-focus

What about my statement?

"My plan is to use EGIS robot in polarmount mode, i.e. welded bracket at the masttop inclined according to my latitude (aprox. 45°) and a bracket in the back of the antenna with an inclination of at least 10 degrees plus an angle of declination (in order to reach sats at the extremes with an elevation lower than the minimum 10 degrees provided by the EGIS).
Something similar to Dx Bozoth adapter for EGIS."

Any suggestions about right mounting solution and selected components will be welcome!


Thanks a lot
 
RimaNTSS

RimaNTSS

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@mirko73 Did you already discuss all those issues in other satellite forums? I know that Egis robots are quite rare piece of equipment, and not so cheap as well. Did you explore the possibility to use AJAK H-H motor instead? BTW, could you please show couple of pictures of your existing system?
 
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mirko73

Member
Messages
26
My Satellite Setup
GIBERTINI 150 -SMR 1224
My Location
ITALY
I've published issues in a detailed manner for the first time in this forum because many of you are really experts on advanced satellite reception systems and my project is to assemble a no-compromise professional system for full reception in Ku e C Band with a single antenna at the roof top of a buiding in Milan - Italy (find attached some pictures of it)!

In this location where wimax /5G interferences seems to be increasing in range 3,4-3,7 Ghz , I'd like to receive C Band in extended range (3,7-4,8 Ghz) by a "tailored made" system that is to say selecting single component really useful to obtain effective results.

Apart from wimax problems, my actual system suffers for several limitations :
- Offset antenna based on a single Ku feed Inverto Black Ultra but exposed to wind force
- SMR 1224 H-H not really well performing (mis-counting of reed sensors , cantilever angle of attack with respect to the rear of the antenna and possible problems during wind flurries

Though an Offset seems to be easier for multifeed, I think a PFA to be better solution to adopt for multiband reception:
- F/D ratio of 0,30 aprox.
- more wind protection.
- One Feed on primary focus (KU band)
- another Feed slightly out-of-focus (C Band) with single Lnb PLL with filters for rejection of interferences
- waveguide + polarotor useful to make C band signals (circular and linear) coexist on a single Lnb


You must also know that part of my spare time is spent in analyze, document myself about technical sat equipment but also in feeding research for professional purposes!

Regarding Egis robot my impression is that details as 180 degree azimuth range, elevation/declination control , auto-focus, super-search and other functions included a solid structure of the unit are synonimous of professional system!

As I said Egis mounted in Polarmount mode (find attached a picture of it) with the support for Multifeed ( C Band and Ku Band) seems to be most attractive solution to make two bands coexist on a single antenna.

Eventually, in case of practical limitations, I'd have no foreclosure to use Egis in classic mode as a bi-axial rotor .

About AJAK H-H motor I don't know it and hoping much more performing of Smr 1224 I'm not convinced it is really capable of 180 degrees of azimuth range all over Clarke Belt (also inclined satellites and low SR frequencies).

Apologizing if I have gone on, thank you in advance for any recommendations able to contribute to the success of my project!
 

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danny10

Regular Member
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Amiko Alien 2,E - 85,Famaval 110 ,IBU twin
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Czech republik
Your EGI motor downloads please?
 
RimaNTSS

RimaNTSS

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Some SAT-related hardware.
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@mirko73 Thanks for the pictures of your antenna. It is very nice installed, good job!
What I am surprised is that you started this thread by the fact that you have already made a decision what king equipment you need and it is the best possible solution. Not speaking about money, which is OK. Of course, for bigger antenna PFA or offset you will probably need more powerful stand. The reed-swith malfunction is not always an issue, it can be fixed in one or other way. Changing reed-switch to optical sensor is also an option.
Pluses and minuses of PFA vs Offset ...... I do not think PFA is better for windy places. Feehorns for PFA are bigger and that is why offset is better for multiply LNBs to be installed side-to-side.
Did you explore the option to use LNB-changer on offset antenna? This would allow you to always have LNB in antenna's focus.
 
M

mirko73

Member
Messages
26
My Satellite Setup
GIBERTINI 150 -SMR 1224
My Location
ITALY
hi all,
I'm not interested in substitution of reed with optical sensors on my1224, also because a larger dish could not be mounted on it!

I remind some minuses of Smr 1224:
- mis-counting defects
- not capable to stop at sat focus
- lack of stability (cantilever angle of attack with respect to the rear of the antenna and problems during wind flurries)

NOTE
Considering mounting of 2 / 2,4 mt antenna plus motor will take place at the top of my building, I need a very hard and stable system but also the complex antenna+motor would not exceed a limit equal to maximum structural loads on the roof !


So I can't image anything better than an Egis robot for it , particularly in Polarmount mode .

According to what I've said if you have different point of view please let me know !

So have a look at what Dx Bozoth published years ago or my (last )attached photo in previous post and that's for me a good starting point of my project !

I'd be glad if someone could share an experience about Egis robot, in Polarmount mode or in "normal mount".

Afterall for me a professional system means best equipment, new components and particular attention to reception devices in presence of wimax interferences!

That's why I'm waiting for contributions on a multifeed so composed:
- Feed on primary focus (KU band)
- Feed slightly out-of-focus (C Band) with single Lnb PLL with filters for rejection of interferences
- waveguide + polarotor useful to make C band signals (circular and linear) coexist on a single Lnb

thanks a lot
 
Trust

Trust

Specialist Contributor
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888
My Satellite Setup
1.8 m CM at SMR 1224 + Elev. with 7 lnb changer Ku (lin - circ) - Ka (lin - circ) C (lin - circ)
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Nijmegen Netherlands
I think the polarmount mode as shown on the picture is more stable than the standard mode .
That Egis housing did not stand the wind on top off a 3 stock house when attached to a 3 mtr mesh

broken Egis.jpgEGIS H2H mod www.vetrun.net.jpg
 
jeallen01

jeallen01

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I think that the lower cylindrical part of the Egris mount might have stood a chance of surviving if several industrial-strength steel bands had been put around and then carefully tightened very "hard"- but "something else" above it would probably have broken instead :(
 
M

mirko73

Member
Messages
26
My Satellite Setup
GIBERTINI 150 -SMR 1224
My Location
ITALY
the broken Egis is mounted on a 3 mt mesh ….. out-of-tolerance for Egis !

my idea of Egis in Polarmount mode on a max 2,4 mt PFA can be well reproduced in picture below:

127584

as you can see :
- an angle adapter equal to my latitude is placed at the mast-top
- a bracket of 10 degrees (=minimum elevation of Egis) + declination angle is placed at the back of the antenna

such a mounting of Egis has the following advantages:
- safe for all equipment in case of wind flurries
- automatic setting of declination to get maximum of signals in each band

below my idea of Multifeed :
- 1 Ku-band Lnb in central position
- 1 C-band Lnb in a transition ( polarotor + waveguide) for V/H and L/R signals reception

NOTE-> C-band Feed would be slightly out-of-focus and in a higher position compared to Ku-band Feed so that Egis adjusted declination would allow to have right LNB in antenna's focus!

any other observation about planned equipment and Multifeed system ?

I'm also waiting suggestions of right components to realize the project by all of you experts!
 
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Channel Hopper

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What is the theoretical maximum for Egis and SM1224, (both using similar material but SM is painted and with manual reference 2.4m dish diameter) ?
 
M

mirko73

Member
Messages
26
My Satellite Setup
GIBERTINI 150 -SMR 1224
My Location
ITALY
theoretical maximum for Egis -> 2,5 mt
theoretical maximum for Smr1224 -> 1,8/2 mt
 
M

mirko73

Member
Messages
26
My Satellite Setup
GIBERTINI 150 -SMR 1224
My Location
ITALY
hi all,
as said my first choice is Egis in Polarmount mode.....

in a short time i will do an inspection on the roof to verify the tolerable structural loads since the slab is raised above the lofts below!

eventually AJAK H-H 180 motor could be an alternative for a large antenna but i don't know it and it seems a new one impossible to find …..

after the inspection' s results i've to find a large antenna over 2 m ….. the only chance to get signals in C-band whenever interferences creates troubles !

over 2 mt it seems to be no great opportunities on the market:
DH 2,4 m PF
IRTE 2,4 m PF
Primesat ?
Kathrein?

having solved antenna's choice , a Multifeed solution could be 2 LNBs to be installed side-to-side:
- Ku-band Lnb in central position according to F/D ratio
- C-band Lnb in a transition ( polarotor + waveguide) for V/H + L/R , slightly out-of-focus and in a position bit higher than Ku-band Lnb (Egis can adjust declination and move LNB in right focus )

waiting for your kind recommendations also about specific components to be assembled for this project!

thanks a lot
 
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Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
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A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
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hi all,
any other observation about planned equipment and Multifeed ?

my plan for Multifeed is based on 2 LNBs to be installed side-to-side:
- Ku-band Lnb in central position according to F/D ratio
- C-band Lnb in a transition ( polarotor + waveguide) for V/H + L/R , slightly out-of-focus and in a position bit higher than Ku-band Lnb so that Egis can adjust declination and move LNB in right focus !

As said I'm waiting suggestions about right components to realize the project by all of you experts!

For example a comparison between Egis and AJAK H-H 180 and something about right components for C-Band

thanks a lot

You will have to determine the final dish type before anyone could advise on the feed and front end components. Rimantss aluded to this earlier in the thread.
 
M

moonbase

Small Dish Man
Messages
2,490
My Satellite Setup
2.0m Precision
My Location
UK
over 2 mt it seems to be no great opportunities on the market:
DH 2,4 m PF
IRTE 2,4 m PF
Primesat ?
Kathrein?

Of the manufacturesrs you have listed, I think that the only ones still in production are DH and Primesat? I am not sure if Kathrein or IRTE are still manufacturing 2.4m or larger dishes? You may need to look for an old PF dish that is in good condition?
 
S

Satfaca

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Melmac
My Satellite Setup
Prodelin PFA 340 cm + H2H motor + Chaparral Tri-band Corotor
Prodelin PFA 240 cm + EGIS ProfiTracker + Chaparral PR1 Ku feed
DM920 + Octagon SF8008 + TBS 6925
Chaparral M140 + Technomate 7102 HD-T2 + Echostar DVR-7000 HDD +Lyngbox
My Location
Melmac
Hi,
I have no intention to jump into any debate about EGISs strenght or suggested dish type & size but ... just my example; in operation since 2010, intermittent Prodelin 2.4m & Orbitron SX-10, today running like Day1.

Prodelin.JPGOrbitron.JPG

Prodelin 2.4 is some 30kg heavier than 3m mesh. I guess DH Satellite 2,4 m would also be significantly lighter...

I cannot give suggestions for multifeed on such large dishes, never used such solution, only single feeds or corotors.
 
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