Advice Needed Fringe reception in northern Sweden

daif01

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I live in Umeå , northern Sweden. Ihave 120 cm dish (EchoStar which is Prodelin , a standard 0.6 F/D) with Ecuator motor, dvbox, InvacomSNF-031 LNB with C-120 feed horn and Vu+duo2 and F15 receiver . I get following sat positions 8W ( only some europian feed channels) , 7.3 w ( only 3 transponders 11938V, 12907 V , 12284V), 5 W, 4W, 0.8W, 3.1E, 4.8E, 7E, 9E, 10E , 13E, 16E , 19.2E , 23.5E, 28.2E , 36E, 42E, 45E,46E,47E.

i would like to get some more channels on Niles 7.3 W ( beter signal marginal for mbc on 11938 and signal on 11158V and Badr4 on 26 E)

I have yesterday removed SNF-LNB and tested Inverto flange LNB ( inverto flange pro singel

IDLB-SINF01-OOPRO-OPP ) .I got slight lower signal on mbc 11938 nilesat 7.3 slight higher signal on all other transponders and still no signal on badr4. LNB holder bracket seems designed for LNBs with a 30mm neck.

I tried inverto ultra singel , but since it is 40 mm , it fit badly in the recess.


i wonder if someone ever tested inverto black ultra on Echostar 120 without using feed horn ?

I do not understand why some vertical transporters on nilesat are stronger than others ?

why i cannot get any signal from badr 4 , when i get some signal from nilesat , although my location is outside coverage of both satellites ?

i get no lock on some very week transponders on F15 where i get lock on vu+duo2 , i have tested original firmware and last firmware on F15, i do not understand that vu+duo have more senstive tuner than F15, which firmware should i use on F15?
 

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i get no lock on some very week transponders on F15 where i get lock on vu+duo2 , i have tested original firmware and last firmware on F15, i do not understand that vu+duo have more senstive tuner than F15, which firmware should i use on F15?

How long is your satellite cable? I found some LNBs like the Black Ultra where overloading the sensitive F15 tuner with my short cable runs (3 or 4 metres) so I put in an attenuator (or looped through another box first) and the signal was much better! Sounds crazy but it works for me. I use firmware 125P which seems to be a favourite around here.
 

daif01

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How long is your satellite cable? I found some LNBs like the Black Ultra where overloading the sensitive F15 tuner with my short cable runs (3 or 4 metres) so I put in an attenuator (or looped through another box first) and the signal was much better! Sounds crazy but it works for me. I use firmware 125P which seems to be a favourite around here.
Thank you for reply and useful info . The cable length of he cable is 35m. The performance of F15 was worser than vu+duo2 even when i was using invacom lnb.
 

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According to your feedhorn (C-120) I guess you have a prime-focus dish. Therefore you cannot simply change the feedhorn/LNB with LNBF's intended for use on a offset dish. So using the Inverto Black Ultra is not going to make things better.
The Invacom SNF-031 is allready a very good LNB and I guess the Inverto IDLB-SINF01-OOPRO-OPP too.

A friend of mine uses a Euro vision prime focus LNB, which has a gain of 70 dB, although I don't think that it is really going to make significant changes for you.
I can't find a manufacturer, but here is where he bought it: http://www.satview.be/satview.be/in...b&action=article&aid=556&lang=NL#.UlkNyM7n4jw

I guess you allready know that size matters, so if you really want more signal: Get a bigger dish.

... only 3 transponders 11938V, 12907 V , 12284V...

...i would like to get some more channels on Niles 7.3 W ( beter signal marginal for mbc on 11938 and signal on 11158V and Badr4 on 26 E)...

I do not understand why some vertical transporters on nilesat are stronger than others ?
There a different satellites, each with different beams on that position.
Furthermore the modulation used (QPSK vs 8PSK) or the less FEC they use, the more signal strength you have to have to get a lock.
F.e. 11938V, 12207V (I guess the 12907 is a typo...) and 12284V are on Nilesat 102 on the vertical beam with DVB-S QPSK. SR 27500 FEC 3/4.
It is known that the Horizontal transponders are much weaker in Northern Europe, so I think you can forget about receiving them.
11900V, 12054V, 12130V are also on Nilesat 102 but because they use a FEC of 5/6 they are harder to receive.
11158V is transmitting via Eutelsat 8 West C, the Ku beam of that bird is aimed at the Middle East:
E8WC_Ku-band_Downlink_Coverage.jpg


Furthermore, the satellites are not exactly on the same position: Nilesat 102 and 201 are app. on 7.0W and the Eutelsat 7 West A and Eutelsat 8 West C are app. on 7.3W. So to get the maximum signal you have to re-align between these satellites. How bigger the dish how more you will notice a difference.
For NRT, NRT 2, Rêga, Waar TV, Waar Sport, Ishtar TV, Nalia FM and Waar Radio you could better try Eutelsat 3B at 3.2E.
For Kurdistan TV try Express AM22 at 53E.
For Payam TV try Eutelsat 21B at 21.5E
Some MBC channels are on Eutelsat 21B too, but you need a special receiver (f.e. the Technomate TM-5402 HD M3 and maybe others from Technomate?) or a TBS5925 or TBS6925 PC tuner.

Badr is also difficult, I only know Badr 4 is receivalble in The Netherlands, so going further north is not going to make things better I'm afraid.
There is a reception report with 120cm around Norrköping.
 
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According to your feedhorn (C-120) I guess you have a prime-focus dish. Therefore you cannot simply change the feedhorn/LNB with LNBF's intended for use on a offset dish. So using the Inverto Black Ultra is not going to make things better.
The Invacom SNF-031 is allready a very good LNB and I guess the Inverto IDLB-SINF01-OOPRO-OPP too.
I'm fairly certain that the OP has an Echostar/Prodelin 120cm dish.
That dish is an off-set prime-focus dish (aka off-set dish), and is "a standard 0.6 F/D" as he states. (I have one myself). They work well with the Black Ultra.

Your explanation for the variation in strength on various H and V beams is spot-on, though.
OP is really on the fringe, so some will be receivable som won't.
The only real remedy to receive the desired transponders is, I'm afraid, a bigger dish.
Notwithstanding that the Prodelin series 112x (which the Echostar is) is a very good dish, a 1.5 Gibertini would possibly do the job. (Anyone else has experience from Norra Sverige?)
(Or a CM180, but that's not going to fit on the gables of the OP's house, where the current dish is mounted!)
 

daif01

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According to your feedhorn (C-120) I guess you have a prime-focus dish. Therefore you cannot simply change the feedhorn/LNB with LNBF's intended for use on a offset dish. So using the Inverto Black Ultra is not going to make things better.
The Invacom SNF-031 is allready a very good LNB and I guess the Inverto IDLB-SINF01-OOPRO-OPP too.

A friend of mine uses a Euro vision prime focus LNB, which has a gain of 70 dB, although I don't think that it is really going to make significant changes for you.
I can't find a manufacturer, but here is where he bought it: http://www.satview.be/satview.be/in...b&action=article&aid=556&lang=NL#.UlkNyM7n4jw

I guess you allready know that size matters, so if you really want more signal: Get a bigger dish.


There a different satellites, each with different beams on that position.
Furthermore the modulation used (QPSK vs 8PSK) or the less FEC they use, the more signal strength you have to have to get a lock.
F.e. 11938V, 12207V (I guess the 12907 is a typo...) and 12284V are on Nilesat 102 on the vertical beam with DVB-S QPSK. SR 27500 FEC 3/4.
It is known that the Horizontal transponders are much weaker in Northern Europe, so I think you can forget about receiving them.
11900V, 12054V, 12130V are also on Nilesat 102 but because they use a FEC of 5/6 they are harder to receive.
11158V is transmitting via Eutelsat 8 West C, the Ku beam of that bird is aimed at the Middle East:
E8WC_Ku-band_Downlink_Coverage.jpg


Furthermore, the satellites are not exactly on the same position: Nilesat 102 and 201 are app. on 7.0W and the Eutelsat 7 West A and Eutelsat 8 West C are app. on 7.3W. So to get the maximum signal you have to re-align between these satellites. How bigger the dish how more you will notice a difference.
For NRT, NRT 2, Rêga, Waar TV, Waar Sport, Ishtar TV, Nalia FM and Waar Radio you could better try Eutelsat 3B at 3.2E.
For Kurdistan TV try Express AM22 at 53E.
For Payam TV try Eutelsat 21B at 21.5E
Some MBC channels are on Eutelsat 21B too, but you need a special receiver (f.e. the Technomate TM-5402 HD M3 and maybe others from Technomate?) or a TBS5925 or TBS6925 PC tuner.

Badr is also difficult, I only know Badr 4 is receivalble in The Netherlands, so going further north is not going to make things better I'm afraid.
There is a reception report with 120cm around Norrköping.
Thank you for reply and great info. I will rea more on google about eurovision LNB. Just one question, i read on forum that mbc on 21.5E i smultistream and that the only receiver that can read multistream is (Openbox SX6 HD) , but before i buy this receiver , i want to know weather i would be able to get mbc signal on 21.5, but i do not know how ?
 

daif01

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I'm fairly certain that the OP has an Echostar/Prodelin 120cm dish.
That dish is an off-set prime-focus dish (aka off-set dish), and is "a standard 0.6 F/D" as he states. (I have one myself). They work well with the Black Ultra.

Your explanation for the variation in strength on various H and V beams is spot-on, though.
OP is really on the fringe, so some will be receivable som won't.
The only real remedy to receive the desired transponders is, I'm afraid, a bigger dish.
Notwithstanding that the Prodelin series 112x (which the Echostar is) is a very good dish, a 1.5 Gibertini would possibly do the job. (Anyone else has experience from Norra Sverige?)
(Or a CM180, but that's not going to fit on the gables of the OP's house, where the current dish is mounted!)
Thank you very much for your useful info. You are always very kind and helpful. I think i am the only one who try to get nilesat and other fringe reception in northern Sweden, a very few people here have sat dish, and they are only intrested on very small dish for receiving 0.8 W or 4.8 E.
 

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I've seen some big dishes in Kiruna, what looked like C band ones.
 

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And not in Umeå area but middle of Sweden anyway, very cool "bosses dishes" http://www.satwall.se/

Tjänare daif01! Here in Finland quite same results as you got. 102 verticals are easyer with 100-120cm dishes. 102 horisontals are watchable here in southern Finland with 150 offset. 12226H strongest H. I sometimes getting light signal from that frequency with my 125cm Gibby, but no lock though.
Former 101 was much more easyer than present other ones 201 and Eutelsat7. So you need at least 180cm pf and rather bigger if needing above.

26E quite difficult if using dishes under 180cm. Strongest freq. 12182H and also here BADR4 only chance anyway. Maybe Bosse get more with 450cm but "normal" 180pf can give only that badr4.
 

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And not in Umeå area but middle of Sweden anyway, very cool "bosses dishes" http://www.satwall.se/

Tjänare daif01! Here in Finland quite same results as you got. 102 verticals are easyer with 100-120cm dishes. 102 horisontals are watchable here in southern Finland with 150 offset. 12226H strongest H. I sometimes getting light signal from that frequency with my 125cm Gibby, but no lock though.
Former 101 was much more easyer than present other ones 201 and Eutelsat7. So you need at least 180cm pf and rather bigger if needing above.

26E quite difficult if using dishes under 180cm. Strongest freq. 12182H and also here BADR4 only chance anyway. Maybe Bosse get more with 450cm but "normal" 180pf can give only that badr4.

Hmm, I have a spare 1.8m prime focus that is not being used in Helsinki, perhaps next summer I'll have a go at Badr 26E for fun but I think 7W may be hidden behind trees now (grown too tall over the years since the dish was installed in 1993!).
 

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perhaps next summer I'll have a go at Badr 26E for fun.

You should try that! And then you´ll find new satcountry Djibouti 12207V. How boooooring yours life been without Djibouti tv so far:p

@mphumax from huoltovalikko (180 pf)->
Djibouti Tv.jpg
 

daif01

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And not in Umeå area but middle of Sweden anyway, very cool "bosses dishes" http://www.satwall.se/

Tjänare daif01! Here in Finland quite same results as you got. 102 verticals are easyer with 100-120cm dishes. 102 horisontals are watchable here in southern Finland with 150 offset. 12226H strongest H. I sometimes getting light signal from that frequency with my 125cm Gibby, but no lock though.
Former 101 was much more easyer than present other ones 201 and Eutelsat7. So you need at least 180cm pf and rather bigger if needing above.

26E quite difficult if using dishes under 180cm. Strongest freq. 12182H and also here BADR4 only chance anyway. Maybe Bosse get more with 450cm but "normal" 180pf can give only that badr4.
Thank you very much for your useful info. You are always very kind and helpful. I think i am the only one who try to get nilesat and other fringe reception in northern Sweden, a very few people here have sat dish, and they are only intrested on very small dish for receiving 0.8 W or 4.8 E.
 

daif01

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Hmm, I have a spare 1.8m prime focus that is not being used in Helsinki, perhaps next summer I'll have a go at Badr 26E for fun but I think 7W may be hidden behind trees now (grown too tall over the years since the dish was installed in 1993!).
i see forward t read your observation next summer. the funny thing is i have this hobby since i was 10 year old. i do not watch tv often. i have the hobby get channel with weak signals.
 

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i see forward t read your observation next summer. the funny thing is i have this hobby since i was 10 year old. i do not watch tv often. i have the hobby get channel with weak signals.
I was 14 when I got into this hobby in the days of Astra 1A and Sky Channel (before it became Sky One).

I will report back here when I try (never really bothered before as I assumed I couldn't get it and now it's too cold and windy to go climbing on the roof to mess about). I have managed to get some of the African channels from 68.5E in the past on that dish so might try that again too.
 

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My LNB is set to zero as i have motorized prime focus dish . my question is is , would lnb skew improve signal quality on nilesat. i have not tried lnb skew because i though i would lose signal on other virds.
 

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My LNB is set to zero as i have motorized prime focus dish . my question is is , would lnb skew improve signal quality on nilesat. i have not tried lnb skew because i though i would lose signal on other virds.
I think it's mainly just some of the Astra satellites that have a slightly different "pre-skew" to most others in the arc so it would probably make a difference as skew is very important for these weak signals. If you optimise skew for Astra 2E or 2F (not Eutelsat 28A as that is different) then you might find reception on most other satellites slightly weaker (like Nilesat) since the skew will be wrong for them as they don't pre-skew. You may need to decide which channels have priority and make some compromises.
 

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I can confirm that it´s very important to adjust skew well on Nilesat, here far north. My experience says that when it´s "best" on 7W then it´s not best 28E anymore. But difference not so big that you should adjust it precisely for 7W. Other positions here are anyway so strong that it´s quite same if it make some miniature harm eg 19.2E etc.
But yes I really recommend that adjust skew at first...
 

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I think it's mainly just some of the Astra satellites that have a slightly different "pre-skew" to most others in the arc so it would probably make a difference as skew is very important for these weak signals. If you optimise skew for Astra 2E or 2F (not Eutelsat 28A as that is different) then you might find reception on most other satellites slightly weaker (like Nilesat) since the skew will be wrong for them as they don't pre-skew. You may need to decide which channels have priority and make some compromises.
Thank you for info. I am not receving signal from 2E and 2F anyhow. i though if skew would improve signal on Nilesat.
 
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