Karen Murphy - ECJ Judgement Due/Delivered

dave1979

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MARK said:
3pm games are still a no go and seperate issue i feel,thats more too do with taking the attendence away from the gates...

The European court said that while live matches were not protected by copyright, any surrounding media, such as any opening video sequence, the Premier League anthem, pre-recorded films showing highlights of recent Premier League matches and various graphics, were "works" protected by copyright.
To use any of these extra parts associated for a broadcast, a pub would need the permission of the Premier League.i understand 3pms are still abit of a no no but surely by this quote its say other wise,for LIVE games!!!!
 

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woborny said:
There is and most likely always be a "blackout" for UK broadcsters to show 3pm kickoffs - apart from FA Cup Final and England Internationals., presumablt to help lower league attendances.

It appears that as long as you do not show the FA / Premier Legaue graphics, idents, commentary feeds, and music you can show 3pms from other European broadcasters.

It looks like her conviction has been overturned, probably as the law is not so clear cut as it should be. As the judge says, it needs a full review of all rights (sports, movies, etc) probably by the EU for all EU countries and broadcasters to sort out properly. Which will be a long time coming. Unless the EU Monoploy commission allow a single or two Pan european pay broadcasters, which is highly unlikely.

O rite...ok,thankx:)
 

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The position with 3PM live kickoffs is the same as for any other EPL match.

If you have an EU-based provider sub AND IF you can avoid breaching FAPL copyright (e.g. muting, covering up logos etc etc etc), then 3PM matches can be shown lawfully even in a pub. As a private individual at home, one does not have to worry about the muting, covering up of logos etc.
 

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Still not over I see, very interesting debate going on. See what Sky do now..
 

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does this mean the latvian viasats could turn back on there 3pm matches then as they cant been seen to breaking the law or breaching any rules
 

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As with interpreting any stage of this tortuous legal process, what it means is nigh on impossible to say.

But today's victory is almost certainly pyrrhic and personally see nothing other than a worsening situation for Pubs and Clubs in terms of availability of Subs at a tenable price.

Of more concern is that the home user is already finding it more and more difficult to source reliable packages and I don't see anything but further difficulties on the horizon.

So, as well as driving many people from Pubs by making them "no go" zones to all those who simply want to drink (and eat), the ability of individual sports consumers to enjoy their pastime is being diminished.

Far from a free, open and affordable market, I fear we will end up with a closed and prohibitively expensive closed one.

The winner (in the long run)?


Rupert
 

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One thing this judgment means is that publicans and even private individuals will not have a criminal record simply because they use a foreign EU sub. Personally, I would not call that "pyrrhic".

I also think when people blame the publicans for any greater difficulty, if at all, in sourcing foreign EU subscription, the blame is being directed at the wrong people ---- and grossly unfairly too.

The blame lies with those who have been manipulating the so called "free" market in order to maximise their own profit and unfairly criminalising people in the process.

The real question to address is whether the monopolistic scheme is acceptable at all or, at least, acceptable in the manner that it operates hitherto.
 

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Tivù said:
The winner (in the long run)?
Unfortunately the forum Ad software snookered your hidden text by highlighting it and making it ckickable!
 

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I'm in stiches!

You just can't dismiss them, whatever you do.

I'll try editing and removing the default parse URL option in "Advanced"

Cheers P.


Edit: No joy. I'll just change the hidden text .............
 

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bigtee said:
One thing this judgment means is that publicans and even private individuals will not have a criminal record simply because they use a foreign EU sub. Personally, I would not call that "pyrrhic".

I also think when people blame the publicans for any greater difficulty, if at all, in sourcing foreign EU subscription, the blame is being directed at the wrong people ---- and grossly unfairly too.

The blame lies with those who have been manipulating the so called "free" market in order to maximise their own profit and unfairly criminalising people in the process.

The real question to address is whether the monopolistic scheme is acceptable at all or, at least, acceptable in the manner that it operates hitherto.

Private individuals are safe, but publicans will get a criminal record due to copyright infringement, todays court case had no impact, it was only for Karen murphy. The main one was eearlier in feb.
 

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chinna said:
Private individuals are safe, but publicans will get a criminal record due to copyright infringement, todays court case had no impact, it was only for Karen murphy. The main one was eearlier in feb.

I'm afraid this is not correct. Copyright infringement is a civil matter. Today's case had every bearing!!! It was the whole point of today's case. Otherwise, why did Karen Murphy not "get a criminal record" today for copyright infringement?
 

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bigtee said:
I'm afraid this is not correct. Copyright infringement is a civil matter. Today's case had every bearing!!! It was the whole point of today's case. Otherwise, why did Karen Murphy not "get a criminal record" today for copyright infringement?

The appeal will only consider the original charges and conviction, nothing more.
 

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Not necessarily, as copyright infringement in the main, is not a criminal offence, but a civil matter.


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Of course; which then begs the question: under what statute or provisions can a publican now "get a criminal record" for using an EU-based provider subscription card? :)
 

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bigtee said:
I'm afraid this is not correct. Copyright infringement is a civil matter. Today's case had every bearing!!! It was the whole point of today's case. Otherwise, why did Karen Murphy not "get a criminal record" today for copyright infringement?

Well the premier league say its a criminal matter too.....

Later the Premier League warned in a statement that Ms Murphy's legal victory would not prevent clubs and pubs being pursued in the courts if they persisted in showing live matches.
A league spokesman said a High Court decision in February in the case of QC Leisure made it clear the league was entitled to take legal action "to prevent the unauthorised use of our copyrights in pubs and clubs when they are communicated to the public without our authority".
The statement warned: "That unauthorised use gives rise to both civil and criminal penalties.
"Therefore should Mrs Murphy, or any other publican, use European Economic Area foreign satellite systems to show Premier League football on their premises without our authority and outside the scope of our authorisation, they make themselves liable for us to take action against them in both the civil and criminal courts."
PA

I will say it again today's case was a waste of time for everyone bar Karen murphy getting her conviction overturned. The main case was beginning of feb. why else have qc leisure, eurovision, and SR ltd ceased trading after that hearing, that says it all.

Karen murphy was one of 2 cases the european court ruled on, Hers was the one highlighted in the press as it made a good headline " pub lady takes on sky".

Theres only 2 winners Karen murphy and sky, but you will never see Karen murphy use a European sub in her pub again.
 

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The premier league are not independent though, so whatever they say is biassed.


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Copyright is a big legal term . The CDPA is of great context hence both criminal and civil cases can be brought from the copyright directive. Previousely the CDPA had been used incorrectly in the judgement against the landlady and should never been criminal just by the sheer nature of sevirity. Like Sky/Prem league claim yes copyright offences can result to criminal prosecutions and maybe prison ; but a lot depends on the copyright claim in question. For instance counterfitting of goods would always be a criminal copyright prosecution. In relation to the premier league claims over logos, anthems etc it is my view that the landlords could only get a civil case brought against them for damages sought by the premier league. They are after all offending the premier league and no one else. In order for the premier league to bring a civil prosecution against any landlord etc the premier league would need to demonstrate a loss which gives just cause for a civil case. The premier league in this instance have no loss. Its sky who have the loss.

To the landlords reading this. No longer be bullied by sky !!!!!!! They can no longer fill your head with propoganda that an EU foreign satellite system is illegal ; Its not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whilst i agree with claims of copyright infringement made by the premier league i believe landlords will overcome this by simply covering over logos etc. The anthem should be covered by a PRS license which a landlord should hold anyway. The only company now who could legitamely give a landlord a hard time would be SKY. But the other fundamental point that everyone seems to be missing is that the EU system in a pub is more than just premier league football. It is golf , rugby , uefa league , europa league , fa cup , carling cup , music etc etc etc ; its not all about the premier league. The premier league may make the life difficult for the landlords in the interim but i think they are chasing ghosts with there copyright claims. With the premier league selling 6 packages in the uk market to broadcasters such as sky and espn it shall be an interesting re tender this spring with players such as Al Jazeera network , Google TV , Apple TV all in the market for a piece of the pie.

Nearing the end and hopefully sky along with the premier league have learnt a valuable lesson. Greed has got the better of them. After all the clubs dont need the premier league !!!!!! Its the premier league that needs the clubs. Expect the 3pms to disappear over next few months from the EU sats as yet again the premier league will play dirty as thats all they seem capable of doing. Get real premier league and give the sport back to its fans.

new2
 

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newtolinux said:
Copyright is a big legal term . The CDPA is of great context hence both criminal and civil cases can be brought from the copyright directive. Previousely the CDPA had been used incorrectly in the judgement against the landlady and should never been criminal just by the sheer nature of sevirity. Like Sky/Prem league claim yes copyright offences can result to criminal prosecutions and maybe prison ; but a lot depends on the copyright claim in question. For instance counterfitting of goods would always be a criminal copyright prosecution. In relation to the premier league claims over logos, anthems etc it is my view that the landlords could only get a civil case brought against them for damages sought by the premier league. They are after all offending the premier league and no one else. In order for the premier league to bring a civil prosecution against any landlord etc the premier league would need to demonstrate a loss which gives just cause for a civil case. The premier league in this instance have no loss. Its sky who have the loss.

To the landlords reading this. No longer be bullied by sky !!!!!!! They can no longer fill your head with propoganda that an EU foreign satellite system is illegal ; Its not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whilst i agree with claims of copyright infringement made by the premier league i believe landlords will overcome this by simply covering over logos etc. The anthem should be covered by a PRS license which a landlord should hold anyway. The only company now who could legitamely give a landlord a hard time would be SKY. But the other fundamental point that everyone seems to be missing is that the EU system in a pub is more than just premier league football. It is golf , rugby , uefa league , europa league , fa cup , carling cup , music etc etc etc ; its not all about the premier league. The premier league may make the life difficult for the landlords in the interim but i think they are chasing ghosts with there copyright claims. With the premier league selling 6 packages in the uk market to broadcasters such as sky and espn it shall be an interesting re tender this spring with players such as Al Jazeera network , Google TV , Apple TV all in the market for a piece of the pie.

Nearing the end and hopefully sky along with the premier league have learnt a valuable lesson. Greed has got the better of them. After all the clubs dont need the premier league !!!!!! Its the premier league that needs the clubs. Expect the 3pms to disappear over next few months from the EU sats as yet again the premier league will play dirty as thats all they seem capable of doing. Get real premier league and give the sport back to its fans.

new2

Your wrong. 3pm games sold in Europe will not end. You think if pubs cover the logo that will be it, the Epl will have watermark etc.

We will know within the next few weeks.
 

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newtolinux said:
Get real premier league and give the sport back to its fans.

new2



............. and give the Pubs back to us drinkers.
 

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newtolinux said:
Nearing the end and hopefully sky along with the premier league have learnt a valuable lesson. Greed has got the better of them. After all the clubs dont need the premier league !!!!!! Its the premier league that needs the clubs. Expect the 3pms to disappear over next few months from the EU sats as yet again the premier league will play dirty as thats all they seem capable of doing. Get real premier league and give the sport back to its fans.

new2

Not sure who you mean by clubs, do you mean football clubs or social clubs?

Unfortunately, people seem to have either very short memories, or are not old enough to remember, but before Sky and the Premier League, there was next to no football on TV, one or two matches a week at the very most (not normally live), or limited Match Of The Day highlights.. The 3pm transmission block was introduced because of the dramatic increase in televised football and the perceived negative affect on lower league gates, the Premiership are not trying to block the exposure of the 3pm matches in England for purposes of greed, if that were the case, they'd sell the rights to Sky or the highest bidder for UK broadcast.
 
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