LED bulb questions

Terryl

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OK kids, I have a 220/240 volt (USA standard) air compressor, it's out in the pump shack, (and other 220/240 VAC equipment with the same setup)I have a 240 volt standard light bulb(s) telling me it's (and the other stuff) online, I'm having problems finding replacement bulbs for that voltage here in the US. (it was hard to find them in the first place)

For those that don't know:
Standard US 220/240 volt AC circuits are 110/120 volts AC from both phases run to the motors, no neutral is used. (phase 1 at 110/120, phase 2 at 110/120)

I have the bulbs connected with one phase on the center button and one phase on the shell. (the part that screws into the socket)

The questions I have are:
One, will a 220 volt LED 60 watt light bulb from England work in this setup?
Two, do they have the same socket setup as a standard US light bulb?

I can find LED bulbs that will take 220/240 volts AC but I don't know if they will take 110/120 on both sides.

Stumped.
 

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Most of the UK has bayonet cap light fittings - the US style over here is called Edison screw e27
 

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E27 bulbs are more common in Europe than the UK but they're still available here. 220v is 220v regardless of the country. The only real difference then is that USA volts cycle at 60Hz and UK and Europe run at 50Hz. I don't know for sure if that matters but my feeling is that it doesn't.
 

Terryl

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My main concern is that there will be 110/120 volts on each side of the bulb,(center button, and base) not 220/240 volts on the input (center button) and zero on the base (neutral) like in the UK and other Country's.

Our 220/240 volt power here in the US is a dual phase delivery system, phase 1 = 110/120 volts, phase 2 =110/120 volts type setup, not 220/240 volts on one phase to a device then a neutral, we don't use a neutral for this setup with 220/240 volt motors.

So you see the bulb in question will be connected to a dual phase power input, 110/120 on both.

Since the LED bulbs use an AC to DC rectifier and run on a DC voltage I don't think the 10 Hz difference in line frequency will matter, my concern is the dual phase power.

I wish I could pull a neutral wire into the conduit feeding the motors, but they are too full to do so, and the conduit is PVC so I can't use it as a ground and the old ground wire as a neutral, bit of a problem huh.
 

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B22 Bayonet bulbs can be fitted either way, there isn't designated neutral or live pads/pins. I don't know if this helps or not.
 

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E27 bulb sockets have an insulated surround as it can't be certain how the 2-pin plug common in Europe will be inserted in to the mains socket. Thus the outer threaded connector could be at either earth (nominally zero) or mains (230v - 240v) potential.

I don't know what the regs in the US are for the bulb sockets but I would imagine they're similar as, when running 110v, your 2-pin plugs can be inserted either way round and thus the outer part of the socket could be at 110v anyway.

In short, providing the bulb socket has decent insulation, I wouldn't worry.
 

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E27 bulb sockets have an insulated surround as it can't be certain how the 2-pin plug common in Europe will be inserted in to the mains socket. Thus the outer threaded connector could be at either earth (nominally zero) or mains (230v - 240v) potential.

I don't know what the regs in the US are for the bulb sockets but I would imagine they're similar as, when running 110v, your 2-pin plugs can be inserted either way round and thus the outer part of the socket could be at 110v anyway.

In short, providing the bulb socket has decent insulation, I wouldn't worry.
Very early ES ("Edison Screw") bulb holders didn't have an insulation shroud around the outer edge of the holders and so a person screwing a bulb in could get a shock - but modern US & European ones do have shrouds and that prevents the live screwed part of the holder from contacting the screw on the bulb until it has been screwed almost fully in, and thus no shock.

As long as an ES bulb has the correct voltage between the centre button and the screw thread then it should work. Thus if there's 220V between those points then a 220V rated bulb should light up.

NB: Whilst almost all of Europe does use single phase 220V, the "Harmonized" nominal voltage is 230V -6%/+10%, meaning that products should work correctly from around 216V to 253V.

However if a nominal "220V" system dropped a lot below the lower limit then they might not - OTOH, a lot of kit is sold worldwide into countries where the "nominal voltage" is just that, i.e. "nominal" but actual voltages can drop well below that, and so most (non-motor-operated) kit, including bulbs, will proabably actually operate down to around 190-200V before "problems" arise.
 

Terryl

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US bi-pin AC plugs on most lamps have one pin a bit larger, this way the hot side is always to the center button.

Now I'm not talking about a regular analog type bulb, but using LED bulbs to replace the old style bulbs I have now, I bought 4 standard 240 volt rated bulbs back about ten years ago, I'm down to the last one as a replacement as one has bit the dust, and I am having problems finding replacements here in the US, this is why I am looking into 240 volt LED type bulbs as replacements, but have no idea if they would take the dual phase AC power setup. (120 volts on both sides)

The reason I'm using the lights is that the air compressor, 3 phase motor generator and whole shop vacuum system are located outside the main shop in a seperate building, I have a problem with going up to the house at night and leaving something running,(old brain, bad ears) this drives up the old electric bill, so the lights tell me that something that uses a lot of power is still on.
 

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Terryl, I'm still struggling to understand your worry about have a different phase on each side of the bulb. If the bulb is rated at 220v and you're supplying 220v then what's the problem? If it's the fact that both sides are above earth potential then, providing the insulation is good, there shouldn't be a problem.
 

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Slightly off topic , offset bayonet sockets in some newish build UK properties, which will not accept the standard B22 lighting, requiring ordering online since there were none at the local DIY stores.

One client was highly annoyed that the new bulbs cost some five times more for the stairwells (dangerous with kids walking up and down three storeys) and lasted only five to six months, I was asked to give some input.

The answer appeared to be snipping out the fitting's flange (easier than filing off the bulb pin), et voila, old filament bulbs go straight in.

(Yes the bulb slants at an angle, making interesting adjustment of the hanging shades, but at least they don't fail inside a year and could last infinitely longer)
 
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Bayonet LED bulbs for domestic lighting that are direct replacements for the traditional incandescent bulbs work both ways. The ones I have are also stamped 50hz/60hz. Whether they'll work in a split-phase system I don't know.
 
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Terryl

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Terryl, I'm still struggling to understand your worry about have a different phase on each side of the bulb. If the bulb is rated at 220v and you're supplying 220v then what's the problem? If it's the fact that both sides are above earth potential then, providing the insulation is good, there shouldn't be a problem.
Well here state side we have 3 phase AC power, to the house they only run two of those phases into a step down transformer, this give us 110/120 volts on each phase coming into the house, each of these phases is 120 degrees out from the other, combining the two into a motor gives you 220/240 volts, and runs the motor just fine.

Now a normal 110/120 volt light bulb has one phase to the center pin, and the base is at neutral. (zero volts)

In the setup I have for the 220/240 volt motors I have one phase to the center pin of a regular 240 volt light bulb, the second phase is to the base, (normally at zero volts) this setup works fine.

Now on a LED type light bulb the center pin goes into a AC to DC rectifier and stepped down to the correct voltage for the LED's DC circuitry, the base should be at zero volts, and is the normal ground for the AC to DC converter circuit.

Now this should not be a problem IF the voltage on the center pin is at 220/240 volts AC and the base at zero volts,(neutral) the setup I have will put 110/120 volts on the center pin and the base will be at 110/120 volts above what should be at zero. (neutral)

Now will the fact that the base will be at a high plus (+110/120) voltage, then drop to zero, then go to a low negative (-110/120) voltage cause a problem and blow the snot out of the DC rectifier circuitry.

I found this online for a standard LED bulb AC to DC circuit, but nothing for the questions I have.

BP2812-circuit-block-diagram.jpg
 

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Unless I have misunderstood, fit two bulbs in series where you would normally install one.
 

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I think you're focusing on the concept of 0v too much. Voltages are all relative. Yes, both phases are 110v relative to earth but true earth doesn't figure in your lamp setup.
 

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A bit off topic but I have a light fitting that I can't use a led bulb in as it still lights, dimly, when switched off. Apparently they don't need two wires.
 

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A bit off topic but I have a light fitting that I can't use a led bulb in as it still lights, dimly, when switched off. Apparently they don't need two wires.
If it still lights "dimly" then I strongly suspect that it DOES still have "two wires", but one of those is actually the earth/ground conductor to the chassis of the fitting! - in which case it has faulty insulation, and thus should be replaced PDQ!
 

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A bit off topic but I have a light fitting that I can't use a led bulb in as it still lights, dimly, when switched off. Apparently they don't need two wires.
Free energy :-mamster:-mamster:-mamster
 
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A bit off topic but I have a light fitting that I can't use a led bulb in as it still lights, dimly, when switched off. Apparently they don't need two wires.

Yes, that can happen with LED-bulbs or tube-lights. Normally when you put the switch in the other wire, the phenomenon ends.
I don't believe it is really harmful, though, though I'm not an expert on this.

The same effect I believe is that with a (non-earthed) TV or receiver that has a so-called 'switching power supply', sometimes you feel a little bit of tension when lightly touching or rubbing over the chassis/ground-connection. This voltage (towards the earth connection of your house) can easily be measured with a volt-meter.
Here, changing the plug's 'direction' also diminishes this voltage.
When you have several TVs and receivers all connected through the 'ground' of the satellite cables, you have to check all of them (with all cables disconnected). I got rid of of this tingling tension-feeling on my equipment, this way.


@Terryl :
I would think you have a single phase connection, with tapped secondary.
(see Why Wye Connection? Why Delta Connection? )

As @PaulR indicated: as long as you don't use the ground connection for your light bulb, you have a 'normal' 230V connection for your light bulb. No needs to worry, I would say.

Greetz,
A33
 

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If it still lights "dimly" then I strongly suspect that it DOES still have "two wires", but one of those is actually the earth/ground conductor to the chassis of the fitting! - in which case it has faulty insulation, and thus should be replaced PDQ!
Ground wires? Most of our wiring is too old for those, though some sockets added more recently may be.
 

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I can find LED bulbs that will take 220/240 volts AC but I don't know if they will take 110/120 on both sides.

Stumped.
Yes, any 220/240 volts AC LED bulbs will work without any issues. Your phases are 110 volts relative to ground (or zero), which you don't use. The operating voltage between the phases is 220 volts and any equipment designed for this voltage and frequency 60 Hz will work correctly.
 
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