nimo70
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- Jan 13, 2020
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- My Satellite Setup
- IRS dSCR // 60cm dish -> quattro LNB -> amp -> splitter -> multiswitch 1&2 -> dSCR 1&2
- My Location
- Southern UK
I'm the building manager for a 7 unit multi-dwelling. Setup as per tag. Experts have been called in, but we still have the issue. My only experience is domestic terrestrial tv. I'm looking to make decisions on the best way forward and have better informed conversations with IRS engineers and/or Sky. Apologies for length (too long; didn't read at the bottom of the post).
A tenant is reporting intermittent issues with signal reception on SkyQ - either all channels are ok, or none are available. Lasts hours and a receiver reset needed. The building's Integrated Reception System is out of warranty. IRS engineers inspected system twice on 'good signal' days - clean bills of health (barring very minor dish realignment). An engineer has suggested the system is sitting at the top of a digital 'cliff-edge', with something (meteorological?) tipping it over intermittently. FWIW terrestrial via the IRS has no issues.
This bit may or may not be relevant:
Prior to SkyQ installation in the flat, Sky were unable to get their meters to give the go-ahead (I believe I should have had a PDF from Sky via the tenant with data on the failure for each visit. Is this the case, and would the PDFs still be available months down the line?) On the third visit (with our IRS engineers giving the system a clean bill of health between visits) Sky sent an IRS engineer as well as the domestic installer. Having told Sky the system was SCR every visit, on this last occasion the IRS engineer told the domestic engineer (after watching me tighten every connector on the dSCR units in the riser cupboard) to test the tenant's socket again "in SCR mode". At the time I wondered why the engineer added the 'SCR mode' bit, surely that went without saying having been told it was an SCR system?! The test unit gave the go-ahead this time leading me to question whether the tenant's socket test had been done in SCR mode previously (it could have been the tightening - yes, but that was about the third time I'd done it and there was nothing left to tighten!) This, to me, casts doubt on whether or not the system had any issues prior to installation, and we have no data from Sky on the failed installations to help.
A few questions I can think of below, but any other ideas/comments welcome.
Testing
Whilst the IRS engineers tested the system at a time when the issue was not apparent, are there any tests that could have been done at that time that perhaps weren't and would have identified a problem waiting to happen. e.g. SNR? Or do we just need to try some things to see if they work, or get lucky with testing when the issue is apparent?
Termination
The multi-dwelling unit has 7 flats all wired with faceplates for Sky/SkyQ. Only one flat is using them. So for the other 6 flats we have probably over 100m in total of cabling attached to the two dSCRs (1 per floor) with, I assume, nothing other than a faceplate at the other end. Documentation for the dSCRs states : Unused ports to be terminated with 75Ω Terminators. There is one port unterminated at the dSCRs, which we can terminate, but it strikes me, unqualified as I am, that the cabling to the other 6 flats with no receivers attached could possibly be causing issues as well. Is that likely, and if a possible cause, is there any merit in either unhooking the 6 flats at the dSCR end and fitting terminators (telling tenants that they will need to notify us to hook up FreeSat or Sky; obviously not ideal, but I am on-site) or providing tenants with terminators for faceplates?
Dish size
We have a 60cm dish. Would 78-80cm (larger?) be more suitable for multi-dwelling IRS? AFAIK we have good elevation and sightline, and coverage (~52N,0E) and signal on a 'good day' is fine.
Sky
Sky won't touch our IRS system, which is understandable. The tenant has suggested we could try and organise a Sky engineer visit to coincide with an IRS engineer commissioned by us. What benefits would you see in this - i.e. what can Sky tell the IRS engineer that the IRS engineer can't find out for themselves?
SKY have so far only talked to the tenant. We are happy to arrange this engineer meetup if necessary, but are obviously not keen to employ an IRS engineer to wait around for Sky engineers to no-show (they have no-showed the tenant previously). Sky so far have given the tenant wide slots of several hours for visits and we'd be keen to nail them to a specific time. Is there a Sky department that would be willing to speak to a building manager/landlord about this issue, given that Sky's relationship is with the end-user i.e. the tenant?
Receiver
Are there any diagnostics on the SkyQ receiver that the tenant can check, perhaps both when the signal is received ok and when it isn't, that would be useful to Sky and/or an IRS engineer?
tl;dr - intermittent loss of SkyQ signal on all channels. Sitting on a 'digital cliff-edge'? Should Sky provide tenants with data PDFs of test results with installation failures, and how long do they keep them? Any IRS engineer tests on a good reception day that would be useful? or do we need to just try solutions? Any receiver tests on good & bad days that would help? 100s of metres of cabling to flats that have no receivers, also unterminated output on dSCR - possible issues? 60cm dish too small for 7 flats? Worth getting Sky and IRS engineers on the same day? What can a Sky engineer tell the IRS engineer that they cannot find out for themselves? Sky department for landlords to talk to?
2 dSCRs (with unterminated connection highlighted FWIW).
A tenant is reporting intermittent issues with signal reception on SkyQ - either all channels are ok, or none are available. Lasts hours and a receiver reset needed. The building's Integrated Reception System is out of warranty. IRS engineers inspected system twice on 'good signal' days - clean bills of health (barring very minor dish realignment). An engineer has suggested the system is sitting at the top of a digital 'cliff-edge', with something (meteorological?) tipping it over intermittently. FWIW terrestrial via the IRS has no issues.
This bit may or may not be relevant:
Prior to SkyQ installation in the flat, Sky were unable to get their meters to give the go-ahead (I believe I should have had a PDF from Sky via the tenant with data on the failure for each visit. Is this the case, and would the PDFs still be available months down the line?) On the third visit (with our IRS engineers giving the system a clean bill of health between visits) Sky sent an IRS engineer as well as the domestic installer. Having told Sky the system was SCR every visit, on this last occasion the IRS engineer told the domestic engineer (after watching me tighten every connector on the dSCR units in the riser cupboard) to test the tenant's socket again "in SCR mode". At the time I wondered why the engineer added the 'SCR mode' bit, surely that went without saying having been told it was an SCR system?! The test unit gave the go-ahead this time leading me to question whether the tenant's socket test had been done in SCR mode previously (it could have been the tightening - yes, but that was about the third time I'd done it and there was nothing left to tighten!) This, to me, casts doubt on whether or not the system had any issues prior to installation, and we have no data from Sky on the failed installations to help.
A few questions I can think of below, but any other ideas/comments welcome.
Testing
Whilst the IRS engineers tested the system at a time when the issue was not apparent, are there any tests that could have been done at that time that perhaps weren't and would have identified a problem waiting to happen. e.g. SNR? Or do we just need to try some things to see if they work, or get lucky with testing when the issue is apparent?
Termination
The multi-dwelling unit has 7 flats all wired with faceplates for Sky/SkyQ. Only one flat is using them. So for the other 6 flats we have probably over 100m in total of cabling attached to the two dSCRs (1 per floor) with, I assume, nothing other than a faceplate at the other end. Documentation for the dSCRs states : Unused ports to be terminated with 75Ω Terminators. There is one port unterminated at the dSCRs, which we can terminate, but it strikes me, unqualified as I am, that the cabling to the other 6 flats with no receivers attached could possibly be causing issues as well. Is that likely, and if a possible cause, is there any merit in either unhooking the 6 flats at the dSCR end and fitting terminators (telling tenants that they will need to notify us to hook up FreeSat or Sky; obviously not ideal, but I am on-site) or providing tenants with terminators for faceplates?
Dish size
We have a 60cm dish. Would 78-80cm (larger?) be more suitable for multi-dwelling IRS? AFAIK we have good elevation and sightline, and coverage (~52N,0E) and signal on a 'good day' is fine.
Sky
Sky won't touch our IRS system, which is understandable. The tenant has suggested we could try and organise a Sky engineer visit to coincide with an IRS engineer commissioned by us. What benefits would you see in this - i.e. what can Sky tell the IRS engineer that the IRS engineer can't find out for themselves?
SKY have so far only talked to the tenant. We are happy to arrange this engineer meetup if necessary, but are obviously not keen to employ an IRS engineer to wait around for Sky engineers to no-show (they have no-showed the tenant previously). Sky so far have given the tenant wide slots of several hours for visits and we'd be keen to nail them to a specific time. Is there a Sky department that would be willing to speak to a building manager/landlord about this issue, given that Sky's relationship is with the end-user i.e. the tenant?
Receiver
Are there any diagnostics on the SkyQ receiver that the tenant can check, perhaps both when the signal is received ok and when it isn't, that would be useful to Sky and/or an IRS engineer?
tl;dr - intermittent loss of SkyQ signal on all channels. Sitting on a 'digital cliff-edge'? Should Sky provide tenants with data PDFs of test results with installation failures, and how long do they keep them? Any IRS engineer tests on a good reception day that would be useful? or do we need to just try solutions? Any receiver tests on good & bad days that would help? 100s of metres of cabling to flats that have no receivers, also unterminated output on dSCR - possible issues? 60cm dish too small for 7 flats? Worth getting Sky and IRS engineers on the same day? What can a Sky engineer tell the IRS engineer that they cannot find out for themselves? Sky department for landlords to talk to?
2 dSCRs (with unterminated connection highlighted FWIW).