Advice Needed Multiswitch selection advice for domestic installation

X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
Hello,
I'm looking to install a multiswitch in a property to allow Saorsat to be delivered to all TV points. All work to be carried out by qualified installers.
I will have SkyQ on a hybrid LNB feeding into one room and the quattro inputs going into a 9/8 multiswitch.
On a separate dish (hopefully 1m) I will have Saorsat and it will feed into V Low of the second input set on the multiswitch. No terrestrial input is required.

Each room (4 in total) being fed from the multiswitch has 2 sat points. This will consume all outputs from the multiswitch. However, in reality, probably four max will be used as there is no real need for the recording facility in 3 of the rooms (one of which is a spare room).

For this to work I need a Quad/Quattro compatible multiswitch. Due to my budget, I've narrowed my multiswitch selection down to 3:

Wentronic 67266-GB
EMP Centauri MS9/8PIU-5 V10
EMP Centauri 9/8 P.155-UP ????

The third item listed above might actually be the same as the second - I've asked clarification from the seller as the photo and descriptions are not aligned.

The multiswitch will be located in a cupboard where the consumer unit etc are located. I've read on this forum about earthing these items. Before the electrican leaves the property is there anything I need to get him to do or should the satellite installer be able to get at a suitable earthing point at the consumer unit? There is no copper piping nearby that can be used.

The small values of touch current associated with one piece of class II equipment are considered safe and will not create a problem, but several pieces of class II interconnected equipment in one household has to be considered.
Does the above mean I do not need to use an earth? Is it okay to earth to an electrical earth or would it be better to avoid totally in my scenario?

My undertanding is that dish size is more important than the multiswitch - esp in a scenario such as mine. So based on what I've said:

1. Will the Wentronic/Goobay multiswitch suit my needs or would the MS9/8 PIU5 be a better option. If so, why?
2. What is needed in order to earth the multiswitch? (I will not be doing this but want to ensure that correct setup is in place).
3. Do all unused inputs/outputs require a 75ohm terminator or is it just unused outputs?
4. Do most of you use the provided euro plugs with an adapter or do you convert them to UK 3-pin plugs?


Thanks.
 
Last edited:
A

Archive7

Guest
Have you considered using Unicable LNB instead of Quad/Quattro?
They will save you investing in an expensive multiswitch and simplify the cabling installation.
Just make sure the receivers in the rooms can support unicable LNB.
For example using two unicable LNB's each supporting four receivers can be used to supply signal to eight receivers (or tuners) (without even using the legacy LNB outputs which can be either single or dual).
You will need cheap simple splitters.
 
X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
Saorsat is only available on a 2 input LNB (KA-Band LNBF). Therefore, it cannot feed all rooms. One room will require the ability to record and view - so under a normal system that would consume both Saorsat inputs leaving all other rooms with no Saorsat feed.
Also, in future I would like to drop SkyQ from the main room. This room would also require recording ability so would also need ability for 2 Saorsat feeds. Putting these through the multiswitch now would allow this modification in future with minimum disruption.

My understanding was that Sky would provide a hybrid LNB which would put two feeds to the SkyQ box and the remaining four feeds would be the Vert/Horz high/low combinations.

From speaking to others with multiswitches, no one has suggested unicable to me. Would this work on a KA-Band LNBF?
 
X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
I should also note that the two multiswitches I listed above are £70 and £90 repsectively.
 
A

Archive7

Guest
I didn't realize that SoarSat is on the Ka band.
The unicable suggestion is relevant to Ku band.
Unless someone can tell us that they exist for Ka band also.
 
X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
Thanks.
Can you comment on the multiswitches?
 
A

Archive7

Guest
Thanks.
Can you comment on the multiswitches?
Sorry no. I had a simple Zinwell multiswich for my Quattro LNB and I am glad I got rid of it by changing the LNB to Unicable.
But I am sure other members would be happy to comment.
One other suggestion that I can think of is using Fibre Optic LNB.
Try to consult with Global Invacom or one of their distributors and see if they have a better suggestion. But I wouldn't be surprised if the cost would exceed your budget.
 
X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
Can anyone help with analysis of these multiswitches please?
 
A

Archive7

Guest
I am not familiar with the SkyQ hybrid LNB and the LNB used for the SoarSat. Go over their specs and make sure they can interface with all the multiswitches mentioned in your post.
Why use only the V Low on the second set?
Have you asked any professional installers for their opinion and if they have any customers who use the same system as you intend to have?
I would also suggest to contact the manufacturers (not the sellers) of the multiswitches and ask for their opinion and if they can suggest a better solution.
 
X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
I have spoken to our installer and he has not set this up before. I've been in contact with others on a different forum and this is the only way to get the Saorsat signal into each point in the rooms.

At this stage I'm just wanting to know in terms of the two multiswitches which one I should opt for - i.e. which of the following is the better multiswitch as I do not know much about gains and losses etc.

Wentronic 67266-GB
EMP Centauri MS9/8PIU-5 V10
 
PaulR

PaulR

Dazed and Confused Admin
Staff member
Messages
16,975
My Satellite Setup
-----------See sig-----------
My Location
Wirral, NW UK and Vaucluse, France.
I used an EMP Centauri MS9/8EIP-9 a few years ago and was surprised that it didn't amplify the terrestrial signal before splitting it up. I had to buy an external amplifier for the terrestrial signal and fit it in later. Maybe the MS9/8PIU-5 V10 has an internal amplifier - it's a bit difficult to tell from the description.
 
A

Archive7

Guest
I think terrestrial signal will not be used, looking at the first post.
 
A

archive10

Guest
I have spoken to our installer and he has not set this up before. I've been in contact with others on a different forum and this is the only way to get the Saorsat signal into each point in the rooms.

At this stage I'm just wanting to know in terms of the two multiswitches which one I should opt for - i.e. which of the following is the better multiswitch as I do not know much about gains and losses etc.

Wentronic 67266-GB
EMP Centauri MS9/8PIU-5 V10
By strange coincidence, I've had almost those two switches in my setup.
I had a EMP Centauri MS5/12PIU-5 for two years and a bit, then swapped in the Goobay MS-908PQ about a year ago.
See here:

My regional Sat-CATV head-end

the only reason I swapped was to get input from two sats rather than one.

The EMP are really nice, and work(s) flawlessly. I still have it, and will use it for something else.
The Goobay/Wenntronic I was a bit sceptical about, but that too performs well.
I used to pass cable TV through the "terrestrial" input - this worked well for all outlets in the house.
Recently, I quit cable TV, and so now I am using terrestrial instead, and this works well too (on the Goobay).
I should say, however, that before the EMP ProfiLine, I had an EMP EconomyLine switch *without* amplification of the terrestrial input.
As you can see from the picture in the above link, I pass the signal through multiple splitters and combiners.
The Economy line EMP with no amplification was not enough for distributing a good signal. That is why I went for the MS5/12PIU-5.
This is not, however, a fault of EMP, but just a fact of signal loss through multiple connectors and splitters/combiners.

So to answer your question: I think both work well on SATs, but the EMP has amplification on the terrestrial input. If you use the terrestrial input, and have a small antenna and/or multiple splitters/combiners in the signal path, you should go for the amplified EMP.
 
X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
I'll only be using sat inputs. However, as we are on the edge of the satellite footprint I want to ensure that the multiswitch causes as few issues as possible in terms of losses from the input LNB. Which one would be best in terms of this - I don't really understand the input loss/gains and return losses? I'm more concerned in performance between these two items than price. Do the dials on the sat inputs make them easier or more difficult to set up?

The both seem to have 0dB insertion loss. However although the below link gives the isolation and return losses for the Goobay, I can't find the equivalent for the EMP Centauri. Plus I don't know how to interpret them. Can anyone on here?

I presume neither of them have DC input sockets and are instead hardwired from the plug to the internal circuitry?

Are these both plug and play devices or do you need to set them up?

I found better specification here for the Goobay (this shows in the diagrams that the Goobay does not have an amplifier for the terr as it is amplified prior to the input.

Goobay Spec

I think my question at this stage is

Thanks for the replies - hopefully answers to the above will allow me to purchase the appropriate item.
 
A

archive10

Guest
I'll only be using sat inputs. However, as we are on the edge of the satellite footprint I want to ensure that the multiswitch causes as few issues as possible in terms of losses from the input LNB. Which one would be best in terms of this - I don't really understand the input loss/gains and return losses? I'm more concerned in performance between these two items than price. Do the dials on the sat inputs make them easier or more difficult to set up?

The both seem to have 0dB insertion loss. However although the below link gives the isolation and return losses for the Goobay, I can't find the equivalent for the EMP Centauri. Plus I don't know how to interpret them. Can anyone on here?

I presume neither of them have DC input sockets and are instead hardwired from the plug to the internal circuitry?

Are these both plug and play devices or do you need to set them up?
Plug and play. No setup required.
I found better specification here for the Goobay (this shows in the diagrams that the Goobay does not have an amplifier for the terr as it is amplified prior to the input.

Goobay Spec

I think my question at this stage is
Yes...?
Thanks for the replies - hopefully answers to the above will allow me to purchase the appropriate item.
To be direct - either switch will probably do what you want. You are not fiddling with fringe reception, so both switches will do the job. As you don't care about terrestrial/cable, choose the one with the lowest price point or best service. It really shouldn't be that much of a problem.,,
 
X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
You are not fiddling with fringe reception, so both switches will do the job.
I'm on the edge of the footprint for Saorsat that is why I'm looking for the better performing out of the two switches.
 
A

archive10

Guest
Reception was never worse - I have lost Channel 4 and BBC4HD etc.
As it has been a while since I checked last, I don't know if this is general failure, or due to change of equipment.


What was the issue here?
TBH not sure. My feeling is that is is not caused by the device, but by antenna alignment and sat positioning.
I went and reoptimised the CM180, and results were much better after that.
I still have the goobay in service - mostly because I want to try the two-sat capability.
TBH if I were to buya new switch, I would probably go for the EMC - although I have nothing empirical to back this up. The Goobay may be just as good.
 
X

Xiaomi

Member
Messages
52
My Satellite Setup
SkyQ & Saorsat
My Location
NI
My understanding is that they are similar based on the following:

(1) The isolation refers to a signal leak between open contacts (between circuits). The larger the isolation value, the smaller the leak, indicating favorable characteristics.

(2) The insertion loss refers to a signal loss when contacts are closed. The smaller the insertion loss value, the smaller the loss, indicating favorable characteristics.
Source: Link

Wentronic Goobay 6766-GB:
Isolation: 28dB
Insertion: 0dB

EMP Centauri 9/8 MS9/ 8PIU-5:
Isolation: 20dB (min)
Insertion: 0dB

The Goobay would appear to be a better unit, but is almost half the price (based on these characteristics only). Am I missing something here?
 
Top