Newbie Here Pixellation problems receiving Hotbird signals

[Misterfyer]

I have a Humax box (about 7 years old) that I have been using to receive Hotbird channels. However I have just bought a new Samsung 5100 series 1080p HD 40" TV and have found that the satellite channel pictures on the TV screen are now pixelated. My old TV was a prehistoric SD Panasonic and there were no such picture problems with the satellite channels. The box and new TV are connected with a Scart lead. The Hotbird channels I am watching are not broadcast in HD.

I have contacted Samsung and they took me through a software update on the TV and after further checks declared that the fault does not lie with the TV. They hinted that I might need to upgrade to an HD box. I have had the dish checked and it is aligned OK. The signal bars also show a good signal.

None of my local installers have a clue although two of them said that I 'possibly' need to upgrade the box.

My problem is that with no-one having definitively identified the cause of the problem I am reluctant to buy a new box if there is no guarantee that it will solve the problem.

My questions are: 1) if one is receiving non HD satellite signals why does one need an HD box - after all most Freeview channels are not HD and appear on an HD screen without pixelation; 2) do I need an HD box simply because the TV set is HD; 3) is this a common problem and is there a well known solution?

 

[rolfw]

What do you mean by pixelated, can you provide an image? A bad scart connection can cause picture interference and a lot of flat screen TVs use scart adapters which aren't great quality, do you have another scart lead to try?

 

[4wd]

1) if one is receiving non HD satellite signals why does one need an HD box - after all most Freeview channels are not HD and appear on an HD screen without pixelation; 2) do I need an HD box simply because the TV set is HD

Got some very old non-hd sat boxes here, working fine & no problem using scart on modern tv.

If sat reception & scart cable is known to be good and can be taken out of the equation, maybe try some different picture format\output\resolution\size in the sat receiver menu and see if the tv likes one of them better :O)

 

[PaulR]

This what pixelation looks like when your TV signal (terrestrial or satellite) is just about to disappear when the signal strength is low.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...1093&bih=464#tbm=isch&q=digital+tv+pixilation

If all you've changed is the TV and the satellite receiver is the same then I don't see how they can be related. It may be a horrible coincidence and that your signal has deteriorated for some reason. Is there somewhere in the Humax's menu that will give an indication of signal strength and quality? Perhaps when pressing the 'i' (information) button?

As Rolf says, check the scart lead. Try wiggling the plugs a little to see if that makes a difference. Maybe one of the plugs is not pushed in properly.

To answer your specific questions:

1) if one is receiving non HD satellite signals why does one need an HD box - after all most Freeview channels are not HD and appear on an HD screen without pixilation
You don't. You're quite correct. You might get a slightly better picture quality though if you use an HDMI lead instead of a scart lead.

2) do I need an HD box simply because the TV set is HD
Definitely not. Like 4wd I have both SD and HD boxes connected to my HD TV. The SD box is connected by scart and I have to make sure that the plug that goes into the intermediate VCR is supported properly otherwise I lose one of the audio channels.

3) is this a common problem and is there a well known solution?
Not really and no!

 

[Misterfyer]

Got some very old non-hd sat boxes here, working fine & no problem using scart on modern tv.

If sat reception & scart cable is known to be good and can be taken out of the equation, maybe try some different picture format\output\resolution\size in the sat receiver menu and see if the tv likes one of them better :O)

Thanks for that, I will try your suggestion.

 

[Misterfyer]

What do you mean by pixelated, can you provide an image? A bad scart connection can cause picture interference and a lot of flat screen TVs use scart adapters which aren't great quality, do you have another scart lead to try?

Thanks for reply,
by 'pixellated' I mean that the TV image is broken in parts into tiny squares. Not the whole picture all the time, but rapidly changing parts of it - especially rapidly moving parts of the image (e.g. somebody's eyes, waving trees, fountains, hair blowing in the wind). I would say that 10/15% of the image becomes 'dotty' and unstable most of the time. The scart connection is ok; I have tried 3 different leads including a top quality one - and I have tried reversing them. The Samsung geek tried to explain that a scart lead does not relay a 1080 image and that I needed to use HDMI connection (which my box doesn't have) - but that may have just been a way to end the debate and shift the problem back to me.

 

[Misterfyer]

This what pixelation looks like when your TV signal (terrestrial or satellite) is just about to disappear when the signal strength is low.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...1093&bih=464#tbm=isch&q=digital+tv+pixilation

If all you've changed is the TV and the satellite receiver is the same then I don't see how they can be related. It may be a horrible coincidence and that your signal has deteriorated for some reason. Is there somewhere in the Humax's menu that will give an indication of signal strength and quality? Perhaps when pressing the 'i' (information) button?

As Rolf says, check the scart lead. Try wiggling the plugs a little to see if that makes a difference. Maybe one of the plugs is not pushed in properly.

To answer your specific questions:

1) if one is receiving non HD satellite signals why does one need an HD box - after all most Freeview channels are not HD and appear on an HD screen without pixilation
You don't. You're quite correct. You might get a slightly better picture quality though if you use an HDMI lead instead of a scart lead though.

2) do I need an HD box simply because the TV set is HD
Definitely not. Like 4wd I have both SD and HD boxes connected to my HD TV. The SD box is connected by scart and I have to make sure that the plug that goes into the intermediate VCR is supported properly otherwise I lose one of the audio channels.

3) is this a common problem and is there a well known solution?
Not really and no!

Thanks Paul, you have provided some helpful almost definitive replies to my questions. My pixellation is nowhere near as bad as any in the examples in your link; it only has about a 10% effect on the quality of the overall TV picture. The nearest similarity is with the 8th picture in which the blond woman's face looks ok but her hand - which is moving - is pixellated. So it is with me. Static parts of the image are ok but anything moving (eyes, lips, flowing hair, water flowing, grass blowing, etc.) displays with pixellated fringes that give a sort of sparkling effect, the rest of the image being more or less ok.

I have tried 3 different scart leads and wiggled everything 100 times, including the co-ax from the dish. No effect.

Your answers to my questions 1) and 2) are helpful as they seem to rule out any need for an HD box. It seems that by a process of elimination it must be the scart connection from my exisiting box to the TV set that is a weak link somehow. In fact the Samsung support girl tried to explain something along the lines that a scart lead can't cope with 1080. Do you think that is true? If so, it seems to suggest I need an HDMI connection. Problem is my box doesn't have an HDMI outlet.

You say I might get a 'slightly' better picture using HDMI connection - how much better, 5%, 10% 20%?

Would using a red/yellow/white lead be just as good (another problem, my TV has 5 coloured sockets, 2 red, one white, one blue and one green and yellow)?

If I have to get get a new box with an HDMI connection can you suggest what would suit? I suppose it would make sense to get an HD box in case more satellite signals are broadcast in HD in the future. But I don't need any recording facility. My technological acumen is about at the level of tying shoelaces. I have looked at boxes for sale on line and can't understand the tech details so need some guidance on what make/model offers good value and a suitable spec.
Thanks for your help.

 

[PaulR]

If you're getting pixelation like in the example then it's nothing to do with the scart lead. Something has happened to your satellite signal.

There's been a lot of bad weather in the UK recently (from what I've seen on the TV - I'm quite warm ATM), is it possible that the dish has been moved by a strong gust of wind? Maybe rain has found its way into the downlead from the LNB. Could some vegetation have grown to obscure part of the dish? Has a bird (or spider) made a nest somewhere on the dish? It could be anywhere between the dish and the satellite receiver that the problem lies. As an outside chance, the receiver itself might have developed a problem.

An HDMI lead will deliver the picture and sound to your TV digitally so there will be no degradation between the receiver and the TV. I can't give you percentages, it's better. The picture is less "smeared" and there will be no fringing around strong colour or tone contrasts. You'll see the effect best when looking at words or numbers on captions. The edges are crisply delineated.

The coloured sockets are probably phono sockets. There will be two for audio (red and black or white) and the others for video. The yellow will be composite video which is poor quality, potentially worse than the scart if the receiver is set up for RGB. The red, green and blue will be for RGB (same as scart in best mode) and possibly switchable to component.

Component and RGB are similar in that the video is split up so that they do not interfere with each other but component can also take higher definition video similar to HDMI. HDMI is digital though, all the other modes are analogue and that involves the digital signal being converted to analogue in the receiver and then converted back to digital in the TV. Your existing receiver is highly unlikely to be able to output anything better than scart or composite.

BTW, what model of Humax are you using? If it's quite an old one it just may have reached the end of its life and be the problem after all.

 

[Misterfyer]

If you're getting pixelation like in the example then it's nothing to do with the scart lead. Something has happened to your satellite signal.

There's been a lot of bad weather in the UK recently (from what I've seen on the TV - I'm quite warm ATM), is it possible that the dish has been moved by a strong gust of wind? Maybe rain has found its way into the downlead from the LNB. Could some vegetation have grown to obscure part of the dish? Has a bird (or spider) made a nest somewhere on the dish? It could be anywhere between the dish and the satellite receiver that the problem lies. As an outside chance, the receiver itself might have developed a problem.

An HDMI lead will deliver the picture and sound to your TV digitally so there will be no degradation between the receiver and the TV. I can't give you percentages, it's better. The picture is less "smeared" and there will be no fringing around strong colour or tone contrasts. You'll see the effect best when looking at words or numbers on captions. The edges are crisply delineated.

The coloured sockets are probably phono sockets. There will be two for audio (red and black or white) and the others for video. The yellow will be composite video which is poor quality, potentially worse than the scart if the receiver is set up for RGB. The red, green and blue will be for RGB (same as scart in best mode) and possibly switchable to component.

Component and RGB are similar in that the video is split up so that they do not interfere with each other but component can also take higher definition video similar to HDMI. HDMI is digital though, all the other modes are analogue and that involves the digital signal being converted to analogue in the receiver and then converted back to digital in the TV. Your existing receiver is highly unlikely to be able to output anything better than scart or composite.

BTW, what model of Humax are you using? If it's quite an old one it just may have reached the end of its life and be the problem after all.

Thanks Paul, I am really grateful for your efforts to help me.
I had the dish checked recently, and anyway my changeover from being connected to the old SD television to the new HD took only 2 minutes, just switching the cables, so it is unlikely in my view to be a dish problem since it was giving a perfect picture on the old set and problems 2 minutes later on the new one.

Not sure what 'BTW' means, but the box is Humax F3-FOX C1. Again, age of the box could be a problem (7 years) but why should it be ok one minute and failing the next.
Thanks again.

 

[PaulR]

BTW - by the way. Sorry for the shorthand.

Simple test, is the old TV still available to be connected to the Humax? Or any other TV come to that, most have had at least one scart socket for the last couple of decades.

 

[PaulR]

Another thought. Could you have disturbed the downlead connection into the Humax when you changed the TV? Take a close look at the F plug where it connects to the box. Is it loose?

 

[Captain Jack]

Is it possible that the new TV is somehow introducing interference into the satellite cable? What cable is it? And what channels/frequencies do you get the issue on?

Another thought - did you, by any chance, buy a new DECT phone or moved your existing one somewhere else? These are also known to introduce interference but only on some frequencies.

 

[Misterfyer]

BTW - by the way. Sorry for the shorthand.

Simple test, is the old TV still available to be connected to the Humax? Or any other TV come to that, most have had at least one scart socket for the last couple of decades.

Yes, and have (just) re-checked on the old set and picture is perfect as was.

 

[Misterfyer]

Is it possible that the new TV is somehow introducing interference into the satellite cable? What cable is it? And what channels/frequencies do you get the issue on?

Another thought - did you, by any chance, buy a new DECT phone or moved your existing one somewhere else? These are also known to introduce interference but only on some frequencies.

The cable from the dish to the box is a quite heavy duty co-ax. The problem occurs on all watched channels from Hotbird (say about 20) - mainly Polish TV.
Sorry, I don't know what a 'DECT phone' is, but I haven't bought anything new like that.

 

[PaulR]

Well, I'm baffled. I cannot see how an analogue connection between a TV and a satellite receiver can have any effect on the signal coming down from the LNB to the receiver. I can only suggest that there's some kind of interference being carried from the TV to the receiver that is causing the receiver's AGC (automatic gain control) to be fooled into thinking that it needs to turn the gain down.

This might not show anything as the interference is probably going along the scart lead but could you try connecting the old TV and receiver together, turning the assembly on and then switch the new TV on as close as possible to the receiver?

 

[Captain Jack]

DECT phone is a wireless phone that some people have around the house.

Odd that with the old TV back in place, there is no pixellation. Does sound like some interference issue from the new TV. Can you try moving the receiver away from the TV?

 

[PaulR]

I see that Captain Jack is thinking along the same lines as me.

A DECT phone is a modern digital cordless phone.

 

[PaulR]

And cross posting!

 

[PaulR]

Does the Humax have a second scart output for a VCR? Try using this to see if it makes any difference. You may have to manually choose the input on the new TV as it probably won't auto switch.

Another thing to try if you have scart leads long enough is connect the old TV up to the Humax and then connect the new TV as well to the VCR out socket. See if this changes anything on either TV.

 

[Misterfyer]

Well, I'm baffled. I cannot see how an analogue connection between a TV and a satellite receiver can have any effect on the signal coming down from the LNB to the receiver. I can only suggest that there's some kind of interference being carried from the TV to the receiver that is causing the receiver's AGC (automatic gain control) to be fooled into thinking that it needs to turn the gain down.

This might not show anything as the interference is probably going along the scart lead but could you try connecting the old TV and receiver together, turning the assembly on and then switch the new TV on as close as possible to the receiver?

Not sure what F plug is, but if you mean the co-ax jack into the back of the Humax, it is sound. I have checked all leads & cables several times (tightened, checked for shorts, etc).
Not bought new phone.
Have just set up the old TV next to the new one. Displaying satellite programme on old SD TV through the box. Then whilst running it switched on new TV right next to it screening a terrestial Freeview channel. Tried switching on/off several times to see if I could detect any flicker or change in the satellite picture. No. Have now got two perfect pictures running on two adjacent TVs.
You're baffled ! ! !
I can only go back to it being due to not having an HDMI connection.