Paksat 1R 38E

[nelson_b]

Thanks Nelson, I swapped over the feed arrangement from the Zinwell LNBF in a "non polo pipe" to a Titanium Wimax LNBF without any type of pipe. I had to fit a shorter set of feed support arms to get the Titanium LNBF feed throad aperture closer to the dish and to its correct focal distance.

The LNBF swap over probably got me about 0.4db instantly and then I adjusted the Az/El for the new feed arrangement which nicked a few more fractions of a dB. It was just enough to tip a few of the frequencies persistently just under a lock into the lock zone. The other factor is time of day, most of the frequencies I locked seem to have higher signal levels in the evening.

I might swing the dish back round to 46.0 East now I have changed the feed arrangement to see if I can squeeze any more juice from that satellite? On the other hand, I am tempted to start twizzling about with the polarity skew and the feed/scalar pair distances to see if I can nick a few more fractions of a dB.

Yes - Maybe you can get a little more. ( You have been already spending some time on it re the feed arrangement and arms ) On such weak signals as Paksat every last bit of possible adjustment counts - i think.
Do you think the Titanium Wimax LNBF is much better than the standard one ?. I have a older regular one and to be honest i don,t find it to be especially good on my offset dishes. i found it was good for linear signals in its side / offset position on my 1.8 until i tried a Zinwell - which fully out performed it in that side / offset position.

The best LNBF for me on my offset dishes in a centre focus position - especially for circular, is the BSC 421 - it locks weak signals better than any other LNBF that i,v tried so far. Maybe its just an C.M. offset dish thing :-)

 

[moonbase]

...Do you think the Titanium Wimax LNBF is much better than the standard one ?. I have a older regular one and to be honest i don,t find it to be especially good on my offset dishes. i found it was good for linear signals in its side / offset position on my 1.8 until i tried a Zinwell - which fully out performed it in that side / offset position.

The best LNBF for me on my offset dishes in a centre focus position - especially for circular, is the BSC 421 - it locks weak signals better than any other LNBF that i,v tried so far. Maybe its just an C.M. offset dish thing :-)

Yes, I have tested both the standard Titanium LNBF and the WiMax version and found that the WiMax version is the better of the two. When I first got the WiMax version I tested in on the ESPN Brazil frequency on 40.5 West and gained around 1dB in SNR compared to the non WiMax version. There were also similar gains on other frequencies.

I missed the boat when the BSC 421 was more readily available so unfortunately do not have one of these to test. I also found that without a polo pipe the Zinwell is inferior to both of the Titanium LNBF's but when in a pipe it was the equal of the non WiMax Titanium but inferior to the WiMax Titanium.

I only have the C1-PLL Wimax LNBF and not the C2-PLL WiMax LNBF. The C2 version has a different cut off filter, it is a hard cut off below 3700MHz whereas the C1 version has a soft cut off below 3700MHz and a hard cut off below 3600MHz. I am not sure what this means in real world performance on a fringe satellite such as 38.0 East as I have not compared them both.

It might be worth noting that all my tests were done on prime focus dishes and with flat scalars. The test reults could be different for an offset focus dish with a hooded scalar?

 

[satesco]

hi all have received these channels this evening,Haq on4145V 2170 and Health on 4177V 2800.cheers

For those who wish to receive PakSat 1R at 380E I recommend to try 4145 V,2400,3/4,8PSK.It has a surprisingly strong signal for many areas,especially as it uses 8PSK mode.The signal is over 8.5dB with the 1.50m antenna in my area! It's worth a try.

 

[moonbase]

Attached below is the signal level evolution table for 38.0 East that I recorded yesterday.
Location: South UK

Signal levels indicated in red were below a lock, signal levels indicated in black were locked. Four of the eight frequencies were locked all day, the other four frequencies were dependent on the time of day. PTV National on 4052V was the frequency with the narrowest window to achieve lock status with a lock only in the evening or early morning.

Apart from the weak signal levels in a UK location for 38.0 East, the other issue is the bleed over from Express AM7 at 40.0 East. This satellite can clutter up a scan of 38.0 East between 3700MHz and 4000 MHz even though it is circular polarity and two degrees away. It is so strong the bin lid kids round 'ere have downsized to cocoa tin lids to receive 40.0 East.

.

 

[nelson_b]

Attached below is the signal level evolution table for 38.0 East that I recorded yesterday.
Location: South UK

Signal levels indicated in red were below a lock, signal levels indicated in black were locked. Four of the eight frequencies were locked all day, the other four frequencies were dependent on the time of day. PTV National on 4052V was the frequency with the narrowest window to achieve lock status with a lock only in the evening or early morning.

Apart from the weak signal levels in a UK location for 38.0 East, the other issue is the bleed over from Express AM7 at 40.0 East. This satellite can clutter up a scan of 38.0 East between 3700MHz and 4000 MHz even though it is circular polarity and two degrees away. It is so strong the bin lid kids round 'ere have downsized to cocoa tin lids to receive 40.0 East.

.
View attachment 127337

When i had that 3 m Prodelin set up on the yard a few years back, i had a good view of 38E, and had quite good results, with around 70 channels scanned in over a period of a couple of months as i recall .... And it was the same then - many channels were evenings and mornings only. and lots of transponders never got near a lock at all. so who know what size of dish would be needed to catch those l.o.l.
Don,t remember any issues with 40 E though with that 3m monster dish. :-)

 

[moonbase]

Update:

I managed to lock another frequency from 38.0 East, this was 4081V with SR of 3255 (ATV Pakistan)
There is a channel screen grab attached below and an updated table that lists the 9 frequencies locked so far from 38.0 East.

.

 

[moonbase]

I have attached the feed/scalar pair tables for 38.0 East below. The setup was a Titanium WiMax LNBF in a fake ADL linear polarity feed pipe on a Precision 2.0m dish. The feed pipe was laser focused for each table.

The number before the / character is the distance in millimetres of the feed throat aperture from the centre of the dish. The number after the / character is the distance in millimetres of the scalar along the feed barrel from the feed throat aperture. The /NS values indicate no scalar present.

.

 

[nelson_b]

I have attached the feed/scalar pair tables for 38.0 East below. The setup was a Titanium WiMax LNBF in a fake ADL linear polarity feed pipe on a Precision 2.0m dish. The feed pipe was laser focused for each table.

The number before the / character is the distance in millimetres of the feed throat aperture from the centre of the dish. The number after the / character is the distance in millimetres of the scalar along the feed barrel from the feed throat aperture. The /NS values indicate no scalar present.

.
View attachment 127485

Pretty good results overall with the replica ..... M.B.

The offset L.N.B. arrangement i,v been using on the 2.4 is o.k. for general C band viewing but no good for the weak signals on this sat
the only transponder i can lock here at the moment is the Radio Pakistan one - 3847 H 1080
The weather is much improved here today - so may remove the sub assembly and fit one C band l.n.b. in a central position and see what will lock for me up here in the North West .....

 

[moonbase]

Pretty good results overall with the replica ..... M.B.

The offset L.N.B. arrangement i,v been using on the 2.4 is o.k. for general C band viewing but no good for the weak signals on this sat View attachment 127487
the only transponder i can lock here at the moment is the Radio Pakistan one - 3847 H 1080
The weather is much improved here today - so may remove the sub assembly and fit one C band l.n.b. in a central position and see what will lock for me up here in the North West .....

Thanks Nelson.

I did a bit of fine tuning of the Az/El and polarity skew to squeeze the last drop of juice from the signals. It was after the fine adjustment that I got a lock on 4081 V (ATV Pakistan) which I had never managed before.

I noticed that the feed/scalar pair distances for the 9 different frequencies that I locked had only a small pattern. It looked like the scalar distance of 5mm to 15mm was the optimum but not a hard and fast rule. I think that with some of these extreme fringe satellites like 38.0 East each frequency might have its own optimum parameters? The solution is a larger dish or a more favourable location for the beam footprint.

If you centrally locate the C-Band feed arrangement on your 2.4m dish it will be interesting to see what results you get, particularly any variance in signal levels from feed/scalar pair adjustments. I found that Samaa TV and Madani are easiest frequencies to lock, they always seem to be present any time of day and can both tolerate a lock of tweaking before losing a lock.

 

[nelson_b]

Thanks Nelson.

I did a bit of fine tuning of the Az/El and polarity skew to squeeze the last drop of juice from the signals. It was after the fine adjustment that I got a lock on 4081 V (ATV Pakistan) which I had never managed before.

I noticed that the feed/scalar pair distances for the 9 different frequencies that I locked had only a small pattern. It looked like the scalar distance of 5mm to 15mm was the optimum but not a hard and fast rule. I think that with some of these extreme fringe satellites like 38.0 East each frequency might have its own optimum parameters? The solution is a larger dish or a more favourable location for the beam footprint.

If you centrally locate the C-Band feed arrangement on your 2.4m dish it will be interesting to see what results you get, particularly any variance in signal levels from feed/scalar pair adjustments. I found that Samaa TV and Madani are easiest frequencies to lock, they always seem to be present any time of day and can both tolerate a lock of tweaking before losing a lock.

Hi- M.B.
Attached is my result so far ... probably more to be had later when strength improves this evening .. i recall when i had the 3m dish on this sat there was quite a bit of feed/scalar pair adjustments needed for individual t.p,s and i,m sure it will be the same with this 2.4 offset . what seems more apparent so far is the Az/El ... i cant get 4082 v (ATV) and 3742 H (OTR) with the same Az position .. around 0.5 of a degree between them.

 

[John]

Hi- M.B.
Attached is my result so far ... probably more to be had later when strength improves this evening .. i recall when i had the 3m dish on this sat there was quite a bit of feed/scalar pair adjustments needed for individual t.p,s and i,m sure it will be the same with this 2.4 offset . what seems more apparent so far is the Az/El ... i cant get 4082 v (ATV) and 3742 H (OTR) with the same Az position .. around 0.5 of a degree between them.

View attachment 127489

.... MB - just changed the duff servo motor on the 2.2 PF and done a quick scan H & V on 38°E up here in the Midlands to see if it's coming in a bit better than last week.
Here's the scan results
......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[moonbase]

Hi- M.B.
Attached is my result so far ... probably more to be had later when strength improves this evening .. i recall when i had the 3m dish on this sat there was quite a bit of feed/scalar pair adjustments needed for individual t.p,s and i,m sure it will be the same with this 2.4 offset . what seems more apparent so far is the Az/El ... i cant get 4082 v (ATV) and 3742 H (OTR) with the same Az position .. around 0.5 of a degree between them.

View attachment 127489

Nice one Nelson, you have done well there to get that ATV one, it is not an easy one to get. I could not manage to lock the S2 News channel, what frequency is that one please? You might also get Dharti TV and Roze TV if the signal picks up as the evening progresses?

As a point of information, the OTR channel is from 40.0 East, it is so strong it bleeds over 2 degrees away.

 

[moonbase]

.... MB - just changed the duff servo motor on the 2.2 PF and done a quick scan H & V on 38°E up here in the Midlands to see if it's coming in a bit better than last week.
Here's the scan results
......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
View attachment 127490

John, nice results, they are with decent signal levels and a few locks I did not achieve, well done. That 4106 V is a frustrating one for me, it sits there with what should be enough signal for a lock but the F15 never seems to lock it

 

[nelson_b]

Nice one Nelson, you have done well there to get that ATV one, it is not an easy one to get. I could not manage to lock the S2 News channel, what frequency is that one please? You might also get Dharti TV and Roze TV if the signal picks up as the evening progresses?

As a point of information, the OTR channel is from 40.0 East, it is so strong it bleeds over 2 degrees away.

Cheers M.B. - thanks for the info re OTR channel, it did seem the odd one out, but had not realized it was from 40 E l.o.l.

92 News is on 4023 V 5700 and locks - just - but only gives occasional frozen pic as do some others that have scanned in with manual scan - Dharti TV and Roze TV are locked and are just about view-able now the signal is gaining strength .. 4106 V that you mention has now locked but not displayed a picture ..

I will compare what i can lock with Johns scan after evening meal tonight .....

The one i wanted most has beaten me so far - 3834 H 6500 it has a music video channel 8XM - although Jalwa another music vid channel i,v had in the past has recently left that t.p. it seems ... i,m about 1.0db short of a lock at 8.5 db though.. so maybe out of reach i think.
I will leave this dish setup like this for a few days now - and make a proper list of what i,m locking etc in a day or two.

 

[moonbase]

92 News is on 4023 V 5700 and locks - just - but only gives occasional frozen pic as do some others that have scanned in with manual scan - Dharti TV and Roze TV are locked and are just about view-able now the signal is gaining strength .. 4106 V that you mention has now locked but not displayed a picture ..

I left the F15 receiver on 4023 V last night and periodically checked the signal. It was just a few fractions of a dB below a lock every time I checked. Thinking about it, perhaps I should have tried a small Az/El adjustment as some of these frequencies seem to benefit from their own personal Az/El.

Doh, just checked and realised what is going on with 4106 V, it is a radio frequency !

 

[nelson_b]

I left the F15 receiver on 4023 V last night and periodically checked the signal. It was just a few fractions of a dB below a lock every time I checked. Thinking about it, perhaps I should have tried a small Az/El adjustment as some of these frequencies seem to benefit from their own personal Az/El.

Doh, just checked and realised what is going on with 4106 V, it is a radio frequency !

I didnt realize it was radio either .... it scans in as a tv channel on the F15 l.o.l.

A tiny tweak to the east has given me a watchable picture now on 4023 V

Re Johns scan ... I locked all the same t.p.s. - plus a number of others that don,t always pick up on blind scan on the F15 but will lock and scan manually .

I will try to find time to type and post a list later.

 

[nelson_b]

Hi - M.B.
My results taken around 7.30 last night ....with 2.4 Channel master offset - BSC 421 l.n.b + conical scalar ... into
Dr HD F15 receiver.

The comparison to John,s scan = all verticals were the same give or take 0.2 db ... the 2 horizontals were both just over 1.0 db higher for me.

Other transponders locked and channels scanned in were
3719 V 14400 .. 5.8 db Dunya News
3761 V 2900 .. 4.7 db Sindh TV
3770 V 7700 .. 8.1db Channel 24 HD
3777 V 2645 .. ? db AJK (switched off early evening )
3952 V 2950 .. 7.6 db Kohenoor News
3983 V 2000 .. 9.4 db Channel 5 *
4017 V 3553 .. 6.0 db Dharti TV
4023 V 5700 .. 5.7 db 92 News
4033 H 2400 .. 8.0 db Oxygene *
4047 V 3250 .. 8.0 db A Plus Pakistan *
4052 V 5185 ..5.8 db PTV National
The ones with a * are not holding a lock now since 10 30 p.m. ... will maybe take some screen pics tomorrow if possible.

​

 

[moonbase]

Hi - M.B.
My results taken around 7.30 last night ....with 2.4 Channel master offset - BSC 421 l.n.b + conical scalar ... into
Dr HD F15 receiver.

The comparison to John,s scan = all verticals were the same give or take 0.2 db ... the 2 horizontals were both just over 1.0 db higher for me.

Other transponders locked and channels scanned in were
3719 V 14400 .. 5.8 db Dunya News
3761 V 2900 .. 4.7 db Sindh TV
3770 V 7700 .. 8.1db Channel 24 HD
3777 V 2645 .. ? db AJK (switched off early evening )
3952 V 2950 .. 7.6 db Kohenoor News
3983 V 2000 .. 9.4 db Channel 5 *
4017 V 3553 .. 6.0 db Dharti TV
4023 V 5700 .. 5.7 db 92 News
4033 H 2400 .. 8.0 db Oxygene *
4047 V 3250 .. 8.0 db A Plus Pakistan *
4052 V 5185 ..5.8 db PTV National
The ones with a * are not holding a lock now since 10 30 p.m. ... will maybe take some screen pics tomorrow if possible.

Those a great results Nelson, you are getting 4 frequencies in the 3700 MHz range that I am not locking. If you centre focus the LNBF there might be more juice awaiting you?

With respect to 4052 V it is time dependent, the signal fluctuates during the day. If you take a look at the evolution table I uploaded in post 144 of this topic you can see the times of the day for maximum signal.

 

[nelson_b]

Those a great results Nelson, you are getting 4 frequencies in the 3700 MHz range that I am not locking. If you centre focus the LNBF there might be more juice awaiting you?

With respect to 4052 V it is time dependent, the signal fluctuates during the day. If you take a look at the evolution table I uploaded in post 144 of this topic you can see the times of the day for maximum signal.

Better results than i expected certainly .. I was studying your time of day chart yesterday.. - Thanks.

Thick cloud, and not much spare time to play around today ... but i,m going to leave this dish setup intact for a few days now, i will tinker further with l.n.b. focus if we get some clear skies. Perhaps try a Zinwell l.n.b. on there as it works well in an offset position for linear on this dish .

I,v always liked this satellite for the challenges that it offers ... there is always the next transponder hovering on the edge of lock to pursue - l.o.l.

 

[moonbase]

...I,v always liked this satellite for the challenges that it offers ... there is always the next transponder hovering on the edge of lock to pursue - l.o.l.

Yes, 38.0 East in C-Band certainly provides challenges and opportunity for experimentation for UK located DX'ers.

I decided to take the Titanium Wimax LNBF out of the replica ADL linear polarity pipe and secure it directly in the feed clamp. I got increased signals pretty much all round so decided to do a quick feed/scalar pair test with the LNBF throat aperture 750mm from the centre of the dish (focal length = 755mm).

The feed/scalar pair table from the test is attached below. There looks to be a vague trend whereby the lower frequencies require a longer scalar distance along the LNBF barrel and the higher frequencies do not like so much length. The length phenomena was observed for a prime focus dish, I am not sure if it would apply to an offset focus dish.

I am still sniffing after a lock for 4023 V (92 News) and was getting 5.0 db about an hour ago. If it increases as the evening progresses I might be lucky enough to grab a lock on it.

.