Dish (not lnb) seems incompatible with receiver - is this possible?

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Hi Guys,



I have a weird problem; I was hoping someone here could help me with.

I live in the Republic of Ireland and am trying to receive free to air channels on Astra 28.2E.

I have 2 satellite dishes, one for my house and one for my shed. I installed both with a cheap satellite finder. I had been using cheap blade media satellite receiver boxes for both. Never had any problems.

Now, I came across a new combo receiver called an iview hd box (another cheapie). I bought it because I can replace my android box and satellite box This works fine in my shed. Receives around 80% signal strength and quality.

The blade media box works in both my shed and my house, 80% signal strength and quality in both. The iview HD box receives 80% signal strength in the shed but 0% (weak or no signal) in the house.

Now, I thought that I may have an incompatible LNB on the dish for the house, but today, I swapped them over. I checked the blade media box in the house with the shed’s LNB, and its at 80% signal strength 80% quality, same as with the other LNB. The iview HD box is still at 0%.

I noticed how confusing this all sounds, so I put it in a table to try to make it clearer.

Capture.jpg

There is nothing fancy in my cables, it goes straight from the dish through one connection to a wall socket to the receiver box.

I have got to say that the dish for the house is a rusty, could that be the issue?

So if I’m right, this means the iView HD box is incompatible with the satellite dish for the house. Is this possible?

TLDR, have 2 receiver boxes, one works with both my satellite dishes, one only works with one. Have tried swapping the LNB but results are the same. Need to know if it is possible that the dish is the problem. Wondering whether it could be that the rusty dish works fine with one receiver but will not work with the other.
 

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
50,739
Reaction score
11,220
Points
113
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
Yes its possible for an lnb not to work well with a particular receiver - Ive seen it myself - I had 2 old identical lnb's that just wouldnt work with one receiver. Those lnbs worked absolutely fine with other receivers and the receiver worked with all the other lnbs in the spares box. Its certainly rare but it happens. A rusty dish shouldnt make any difference - as long as it hasnt rusted through into big holes, its still collecting signal & focussing it..
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Thanks for the response,
Its still bright so I went out and tried the house LNB with the shed dish

I think at this point I have ruled out the LNB being a contributing factor since I have two LNB's and replicated the exact same scenario with both.

The shed LNB and iview HD box work perfectly with the shed dish.
The shed LNB and Blade media box work perfectly with the shed dish

The shed LNB and iview HD box do not work with the house dish
The shed LNB and Blade media box work perfectly with the house dish

The house LNB and iview HD box work perfectly with the shed dish.
The house LNB and Blade media box work perfectly with the shed dish

The house LNB and iview HD box do not work with the house dish
The house LNB and Blade media box work perfectly with the house dish

This table shows my results for each combination.
From what I can see, it can only be caused by the House Dish / iview HD receiver box combination.
Or could there be a factor I am missing?
Capture.jpg
 

nelson_b

Contributor
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,962
Reaction score
2,026
Points
113
Age
73
My Satellite Setup
Strong 4375 driving a 2.4 m Channel Master dual focus offset + Invcom Quad C120 K/U l.n.b. + BSC 421 and Zinwell C band l.n.b.,s - DR HD F15 - TM5302 - Octagon SX88+Optima - GT Media V7 - HD receivers. + other dishes currently in use - Antique 3.0 m Prodelin P.F. - Channel Master 1.8 m offset - Channel Master. 1.2 m.
My Location
North West Yorkshire - near Lancashire & Cumbria borders.
Maybe the Iview has a less sensitive tuner than the Blade - and the house dish is not collecting / giving it "quite" enough signal to lock ?
 

Terryl

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
3,246
Reaction score
1,932
Points
113
Age
82
My Satellite Setup
OpenBox X5 on a 1 meter motorized dish.
And now a 10 foot "C" band dish.

Custom built PC
My Location
Deep in the Boonies in the central Sierra Nevada mountains of California.
Questions:
How far apart are the two dish's from each other????

And are they at the same elevations or are they at different heights above ground??

And are the two dish's the same size or different??

Are the two coax runs the same type of coax, are they the same length, are the two systems both grounded?

If the Shed/House LNB combo works with the Iview receiver, then something is causing a loss of signal at the house dish that is not affecting the Blade Media receiver.

The two receivers may have differant tuner inputs, the one in the Media receiver is rejecting or attenuating what ever is affecting the Iview receiver at the house.
 

ozumo

te wo tsuite
Staff member
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
5,197
Reaction score
2,595
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
Raven mk2 zone 2 x4, Channel Master: 90cm x3, 1.2m x2, 1.8m PF. CM polar mount x2, Az/El x3.
My Location
South Durham
Are both dishes the same size? Signal quality is more important than strength, does the Blade Media box show similar signal quality for the same channels on both dishes?

My old Humax Foxsat HD freesat box used to struggle with short cable lengths and required the use of an attenuator to reduce the signal strength. Don't suppose the house cable is much shorter than the shed one?
 

jeallen01

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
6,674
Reaction score
2,630
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
See Signature
My Location
Somewhere in England (possibly?)!
Ref "blade media" - wasn't there a "problem" with "blademedia" several years ago? - generally a very capable guy as ISTR, but one might question whether one should buy products which might appear to to be associated with him??

PS: FWIW, ref the OP's original question, I also doubt that this issue relates to his dishes or LNB's.
 
Last edited:

a33

Specialised Contributor
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
710
Points
113
Age
63
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
Signal quality is more important than strength

To add on that:
When you do have signal strength = 0, with some boxes (not all react the same) that means no (DC) current is able to flow to the LNB.
So also check your cables and connections for conductive continuity, and check the length of center pin of the F-connectors (should be not too long, not too short).

Greetz,
A33
 

rolfw

Believe it when I see it Admin.
Staff member
Joined
May 1, 1999
Messages
38,292
Reaction score
1,615
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
Technomate 5402 HD M2 Ci, DM7000s, Transparent 80cm Dish, Moteck SG2100 DiseqC motor, lots of legacy gear. Meters: Satlook Digital NIT, Promax HD Ranger+ spectrum analyser.
My Location
Berkshire
Could be a quality of signal issue on the house dish, but more likely to do with the cable or connector. I have had a case where the F connector centre core was cut a little too short for the receiver female F connector and it didn't make electrical contact..
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Questions:
How far apart are the two dish's from each other????

And are they at the same elevations or are they at different heights above ground??

And are the two dish's the same size or different??

Are the two coax runs the same type of coax, are they the same length, are the two systems both grounded?

If the Shed/House LNB combo works with the Iview receiver, then something is causing a loss of signal at the house dish that is not affecting the Blade Media receiver.

The two receivers may have different tuner inputs, the one in the Media receiver is rejecting or attenuating what ever is affecting the Iview receiver at the house.

Thanks for the response mate, satellites are roughly the same elevation, Both about 5 meters from the ground, about 100 metres apart.
I don't know if both systems are grounded, This could be very important, because I suspect the blade media box is grounded through the mains ground and the iview HD box does not an "Earth cable". I will look into this.

Same cables, but there is an Female to female F connectors in the house.

After work today, I am going to investigate grounding the house system and check out that female to female F-connector.

Hey, thanks very much for the advice.
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Are both dishes the same size? Signal quality is more important than strength, does the Blade Media box show similar signal quality for the same channels on both dishes?

My old Humax Foxsat HD freesat box used to struggle with short cable lengths and required the use of an attenuator to reduce the signal strength. Don't suppose the house cable is much shorter than the shed one?

Thanks for the response mate, I can't really measure the cables, but I'd estimate they are roughly the same length, both probably around 20m. Both are the same dish, except the house one is very rusty. I am going to look into F connectors and earthing, and after that I will follow up with an attenuator.

Thanks for the help.
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Ref "blade media" - wasn't there a "problem" with "blademedia" several years ago? - generally a very capable guy as ISTR, but one might question whether one should buy products which might appear to to be associated with him??

PS: FWIW, ref the OP's original question, I also doubt that this issue relates to his dishes or LNB's.
Hey, thanks for the info. I got two of these units in 2012. I don't know anything about the brand. I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to, I'd love to know. Any chance you could enlighten me?

Thanks for the advice, the general consensus seems to be that my problem is not related to the dish, so I'll be investigating the cables and connectors and earthing next.
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
To add on that:
When you do have signal strength = 0, with some boxes (not all react the same) that means no (DC) current is able to flow to the LNB.
So also check your cables and connections for conductive continuity, and check the length of center pin of the F-connectors (should be not too long, not too short).

Greetz,
A33
Thanks very much mate, Once I finish work today, I will hook straight into this. To be honest, from my uneducated perspective, I had ruled out an issue like this, because the blade media box receives perfect signal, but judging from the feedback, I was wrong to rule this out and I'll get back on it.
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Could be a quality of signal issue on the house dish, but more likely to do with the cable or connector. I have had a case where the F connector centre core was cut a little too short for the receiver female F connector and it didn't make electrical contact..
Thanks very much for the response mate, I think you might be on the money, because I think I have a female to female F-Type connector in the house set up. I am going to try to sort this out after work today.
 

Lazarus

Retired Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
27,078
Reaction score
8,664
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
80cm Motorised.
Several small Dishes.
Much else.
My Location
North York Moors
Hey, thanks for the info. I got two of these units in 2012. I don't know anything about the brand. I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to, I'd love to know. Any chance you could enlighten me?

Mod.Note

This touches upon an unseemly historical issue with a former Member and any further discussion of the matter will be summarily deleted.
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Maybe the Iview has a less sensitive tuner than the Blade - and the house dish is not collecting / giving it "quite" enough signal to lock ?
Thanks for the response mate, Its all new to me. I think I am going to replace that dish anyway, because it just doesn't too aesthetically pleasing on the side of the house with the visible rust. I will be troubleshooting the cables tonight, and I will let you know how I get on.
 

ozumo

te wo tsuite
Staff member
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
5,197
Reaction score
2,595
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
Raven mk2 zone 2 x4, Channel Master: 90cm x3, 1.2m x2, 1.8m PF. CM polar mount x2, Az/El x3.
My Location
South Durham
Thanks for the response mate, I can't really measure the cables, but I'd estimate they are roughly the same length, both probably around 20m. Both are the same dish, except the house one is very rusty. I am going to look into F connectors and earthing, and after that I will follow up with an attenuator.

Thanks for the help.

If both setups are roughly the same I doubt an attenuator will help. The F-connector theory is the best place to start :)
 

Terryl

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
3,246
Reaction score
1,932
Points
113
Age
82
My Satellite Setup
OpenBox X5 on a 1 meter motorized dish.
And now a 10 foot "C" band dish.

Custom built PC
My Location
Deep in the Boonies in the central Sierra Nevada mountains of California.
Thanks for the response mate, satellites are roughly the same elevation, Both about 5 meters from the ground, about 100 metres apart.
I don't know if both systems are grounded, This could be very important, because I suspect the blade media box is grounded through the mains ground and the iview HD box does not an "Earth cable". I will look into this.

Same cables, but there is an Female to female F connectors in the house.

After work today, I am going to investigate grounding the house system and check out that female to female F-connector.

Hey, thanks very much for the advice.
The two need to be at the same elevation or things like signal bounce can affect one but not the other, if you don't have an elevation meter or other device to measure the elevation on both then a string with a weight on the end and a simple protractor* can be used, if the two are off by more then several degrees then your looking at alignment problems.

The one at the house is picking up something that the one at the shed is not.

*Simple protractor.....https://www.inchcalculator.com/printable-protractor-download/


Female to female??? do you mean an "F" barrel connector? If this is the case then the two systems have a different coax setup, the "F" connector is adding additional signal loss at the house, also check the color of the "F" connectors internal insulation, if it's white then the connector is the wrong type for satellite work, the correct splice "F" connector should have a blue or green center insulator, this type will have less signal loss at the IF frequency's used in satellite work. (900 MHz to 2.5 GHz)

The ones with a white insulator are only rated out to around 900 MHz and are used for TV or cable TV signals.
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
The two need to be at the same elevation or things like signal bounce can affect one but not the other, if you don't have an elevation meter or other device to measure the elevation on both then a string with a weight on the end and a simple protractor* can be used, if the two are off by more then several degrees then your looking at alignment problems.

The one at the house is picking up something that the one at the shed is not.

*Simple protractor.....https://www.inchcalculator.com/printable-protractor-download/


Female to female??? do you mean an "F" barrel connector? If this is the case then the two systems have a different coax setup, the "F" connector is adding additional signal loss at the house, also check the color of the "F" connectors internal insulation, if it's white then the connector is the wrong type for satellite work, the correct splice "F" connector should have a blue or green center insulator, this type will have less signal loss at the IF frequency's used in satellite work. (900 MHz to 2.5 GHz)

The ones with a white insulator are only rated out to around 900 MHz and are used for TV or cable TV signals.
Thanks for the response mate, yes I am referring to the barrel type connection. I never knew that about the insulation. To be honest, I got a bunch of them with an LNB and they were all white, I have never had a problem with them until now. Alas, I have changed it out and it is not the problem. The new dish arrived, so I am going to change that out, hopefully the weather is good, and if so, I will try to match the elevation.

Thanks for the advice
 

lazy_magician

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Messages
24
Reaction score
9
Points
3
Age
40
My Satellite Setup
2 sateilttes, both old sky sateilttes. Both have
QUAD LNB 0.1dB. I have two blade medial satelitte receiver boxes and am trying to get an iview HD box to work
My Location
Republic of Ireland - Cork
Guys, thanks for all the help, just wanted to give a quick update. I changed out the female to female connectors and did my best to make really good connections (turned out there were two connections in the wire in the house from the LNB to the wall socket). It didn't make any difference. The blade media picks up at 79% strength 77% quality, the iview HD box is at 0% 0%.

I had a bit of a brainwave, and remembered that one of the cables from the LNB runs to a wall socket in the bedroom. So I took the blade box and iview box to that room and tested it. Exact same result, iview HD box 0% 0%, blade media 79% 77%.There are no connections in that cable from the LNB to the wall socket.

I think that effectively rules out the cabling. The new dish arrived yesterday. Turns out its a lot larger than the dish I am replacing, I don't know what kind of difference that will make.

So, hopefully, weather permitting I will put up the new dish tomorrow, and (if I can manage it) I will try to compare the elevations of the two dishes.

I know I am operating with a bargain basement set up, but I really don't want to admit defeat on this!.

Thanks for all the great advice, if anyone thinks of anything - I'm all ears.

Regards,
 
Top