neumoDVB

Llew · Jul 2, 2022

satesco said:
@Llew, If I may, try the signal first with the tune-s2 app and the 6903 card to locate the position and transponders, and then with the 6903x card.
Crossed fingers

Of all the DVB cards(6903x,6902se,etc) tried with the Tune-S2 app, only tbs6983 could lock low symbol rate 256 KS/s on all transponders.
And yet the neumoDVB spectrum at 10.0E does not reflect the extraordinary capabilities this card has!
I reran the test with 6983 on the 256kS/s symbol rate transponders, and although each time it locked them, the constellation is worse than with the 6903X card.
Also, with this card the sdt is missing, so we can't find the media content, i.e. the radio stream.The only difference is in the frequencies, which are 1, 2 or 3 MHz lower than normal.

OK, I'll try that, but first I'll use the Triax TD88, as it seems my Gibby may be a little misaligned around the arc for 10E. And I'll use an Inverto PLL LNB in the hope it can distinguish better between these close frequencies.

A neumodvb scan sees 12588V SR250,but doesn't lock, and fails to see any frequencies around the 1260xx area.

Llew · Jul 2, 2022

satesco said:
try the signal first with the tune-s2 app

tune-s2 doesn't compile on any of my present Linux versions. Too many errors in the build. I used to run it some time ago in some OS or other, can't remember which.

I have a problem with a knee, so I have to accept that, until I can use a ladder to adjust my Gibby to correct its misalignment around 10E or so, I'll have to pass on getting those radio frequencies

satesco · Jul 3, 2022

The only success with the 6903x on card 11695 V,185,3/4(Mars Radio) at 30.0W is that you can get the Constellation, but of course without the signal being locked. Probably a small success, which, who knows, Deeptho will make it complete in near future?
Instead, as I expected, with the 6983 card you can not only lock the signal but also scan and listen to the Mars radio station. Of course the 11695 V can only be manually scanned, because blindscan can't even find this transponder.
Once again I deplore the fact that the spectrum of 6983 is below the performance level of this card. I hope Deeptho doesn't get upset because I repeat this. In fact he asked us to express what we would like from his application.

Llew · Jul 3, 2022

satesco said:
The only success with the 6903x on card 11695 V,185,3/4(Mars Radio) at 30.0W is that you can get the Constellation, but of course without the signal being locked.

I was going to try Mars Radio tomorrow with the 6903X, as I have a solid signal with the Gibby away from more central arc positions while I wait to realign the dish.
Thanks for the pointers

satesco · Jul 4, 2022

The lowest symbol rate locked (Partial) so far with neumoDVB for the 6903x card is 256 Ks/s at 10.0E! This in itself is a performance that I didn't think possible with this card.
Here recently with 6903x with Deeptho's application I managed to reach another threshold, which I didn't even dream what it is capable of, namely, locking symbol rate of 167 Ks/s on 11689 V,167.8/9 at 27. 5W. What's interesting in this case is that the signal from this satellite has no coverage at all in my area, even more so since Intel 901 began operating at this position. And even if I had the strongest signal, I didn't expect neumoDVB to be able to do that.Probably if the signal was stronger and more stable I would get more.
Also on this satellite we have the radio package at 11596 V,500,8/9. This one I have locked more easily.
I don't know if it's possible, but the next step Deeptho has to do is to get the Scan Result not with "Partial,but OK when we lock the low symbol rate. That is to say we can use the stream (media) of the transponder with low symbol rate.
By the way,a last try with 6903x to lock 185 Ks on 11697 V at 30.0W is promising. It's the first time I see the signal on the quality bar at 11697 V, without any additional information.
I should also add that the tests on these low symbol rate transponders I did with a dro(IBU) lnb. In this scorching heat, a PLL lnb would hopefully give a more conclusive result.

Llew · Jul 4, 2022

satesco said:
The lowest symbol rate locked (Partial) so far with neumoDVB for the 6903x card is 256 Ks/s at 10.0E! This in itself is a performance that I didn't think possible with this card.
Here recently with 6903x with Deeptho's application I managed to reach another threshold, which I didn't even dream what it is capable of, namely, locking symbol rate of 167 Ks/s on 11689 V,167.8/9 at 27. 5W. What's interesting in this case is that the signal from this satellite has no coverage at all in my area, even more so since Intel 901 began operating at this position. And even if I had the strongest signal, I didn't expect neumoDVB to be able to do that.Probably if the signal was stronger and more stable I would get more.
Also on this satellite we have the radio package at 11596 V,500,8/9. This one I have locked more easily.
I don't know if it's possible, but the next step Deeptho has to do is to get the Scan Result not with "Partial,but OK when we lock the low symbol rate. That is to say we can use the stream (media) of the transponder with low symbol rate.
By the way,a last try with 6903x to lock 185 Ks on 11697 V at 30.0W is promising. It's the first time I see the signal on the quality bar at 11697 V, without any additional information.
I should also add that the tests on these low symbol rate transponders I did with a dro(IBU) lnb. In this scorching heat, a PLL lnb would hopefully give a more conclusive result.

Attempt at locking the Mars radios unsuccessful with the 6903X. In particular, I tried 11689V as you were successful, but it doesn't lock.

A PLL LNB might be better, but it would mean replacing it on the dish, which is out of the question at present.

I don't even see 11596V

I will check my LNB (Inverto KA/KU) for accuracy on my Promax Ranger to try to find its true oscillator frequency, then apply any changes to the tuned Mars frequencies.

satesco · Jul 4, 2022

I confess that I am glad I am not alone in these tests. The more testers, the better the results.
I can't figure out why you can't lock 11689 V at 27.5W? Theoretically, you're more likely to get it because you're in the spot, so the signal is stronger.
I don't know if you've ever tried to catch this transponder with Crazyscan, under Windows, with the 6903 cards. You have a better chance of success than now, the first time on Linux.
On this Intel 901 there are some low symbol rate transponders besides 11689 V, namely :11591 V,250,8/9,11685 V,166,8/9,etc(see FS).
These low symbol rates, and others, are a double challenge, one for Deeptho to find a solution to lock them under Linux which is not possible on Windows, and on the other hand, for us, enthusiasts to be able to receive them!
I have installed the formidable neumoDVB for this reason. I am trying to test these DVB cards with Deeptho's application to know if some of the limits observed on Windows are of the cards or of the application?
I have to admit it's a strange claim, and probably unrealistic.
Regards

Llew · Jul 4, 2022

satesco said:
I can't figure out why you can't lock 11689 V at 27.5W? Theoretically, you're more likely to get it because you're in the spot, so the signal is stronger.
I don't know if you've ever tried to catch this transponder with Crazyscan, under Windows, with the 6903 cards

I get the occasional IQ QPSK showing for 11689V in Windows with my 6983 card, but no lock.

I think I have less patience or your 'golden touch' with these TPs. I'll come back to them in due course, just need a break from these in particular

deeptho · Jul 4, 2022

Maybe we should organise a contest "how low can you go?". Here is a result with tbs 6909X:
27.5W 11690.178V 167 kS/s DVBS2 - QPSK. This mux locks reliably. I guess one factor is the DVBS2 nature
and another that it is well separated from all other muxes.
There is DVB data on this mux, but no PAT, SDT nor nit. Below you can see that this contains a
number of audio streams. One of the streams has silence, the other one has an Irish radio station: "Irish classic hits"

The way to listen to them is a bit involved, as neumodVB does not detect valid SI tables (there are none).
1. start neumodvb and make it lock
2. run dvbsnoop -adapter 2 -s ts -tsraw -b > /tmp/stream.ts
3. run mpv --aid=2 /tmp/stream.ts

Obviously, adapter number has to be changed to whatever is appropriate.


===============================================================================
|  TRANSPORT STREAM ANALYSIS REPORT                                           |
|=============================================================================|
|  Transport Stream Id: ............. Unknown  |  Services: .............. 0  |
|  Bytes: ........................... 938,496  |  PID's: Total: .......... 3  |
|  TS packets: ........................ 4,992  |         Clear: .......... 3  |
|     With invalid sync: .................. 0  |         Scrambled: ...... 0  |
|     With transport error: ............... 0  |         With PCR's: ..... 2  |
|     Suspect and ignored: ................ 0  |         Unreferenced: ... 2  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Transport stream bitrate, based on ....... 188 bytes/pkt    204 bytes/pkt  |
|  User-specified: ................................... None             None  |
|  Estimated based on PCR's: .................. 287,399 b/s      311,858 b/s  |
|  Selected reference bitrate: ................ 287,399 b/s      311,858 b/s  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Broadcast time: ................................... 26 sec (0 min 26 sec)  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Srv Id  Service Name                              Access          Bitrate  |
|                                                                             |
|  Note 1: C=Clear, S=Scrambled                                               |
|  Note 2: Unless specified otherwise, bitrates are based on 188 bytes/pkt    |
===============================================================================


===============================================================================
|  SERVICES ANALYSIS REPORT                                                   |
|=============================================================================|
|  Global PID's                                                               |
|  TS packets: 92, PID's: 1 (clear: 1, scrambled: 0)                          |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|     PID  Usage                                     Access          Bitrate  |
|   Total  Global PID's ................................. C        5,297 b/s  |
|   Subt.  Global PSI/SI PID's (0x00-0x1F) .............. C            0 b/s  |
|  0x1FFF  Stuffing ..................................... C        5,297 b/s  |
|=============================================================================|
|  Unreferenced PID's                                                         |
|  TS packets: 4,900, PID's: 2 (clear: 2, scrambled: 0)                       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|     PID  Usage                                     Access          Bitrate  |
|   Total  Unreferenced PID's ........................... C      282,102 b/s  |
|  0x00C9  Unreferenced ................................. C      141,109 b/s  |
|  0x012D  Unreferenced ................................. C      140,993 b/s  |
===============================================================================
==============================================================================
|  PIDS ANALYSIS REPORT                                                       |
|=============================================================================|
|  PID: 0x00C9 (201)                                            Unreferenced  |
|  PES stream id: 0xC0 (Audio 0)                                              |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Unreferenced PID          Transport:                Discontinuities:       |
|  Bitrate: ... 141,109 b/s  Packets: ......... 2,451  Expected: ......... 0  |
|  Access: .......... Clear  Adapt.F.: ........ 1,320  Unexpect: ......... 0  |
|                            Duplicated: .......... 0  Sections:              |
|                            PCR: ............. 1,225  Unit start: ..... 204  |
|                            TSrate: .... 287,399 b/s                         |
|=============================================================================|
|  PID: 0x012D (301)                                            Unreferenced  |
|  PES stream id: 0xC0 (Audio 0)                                              |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Unreferenced PID          Transport:                Discontinuities:       |
|  Bitrate: ... 140,993 b/s  Packets: ......... 2,449  Expected: ......... 0  |
|  Access: .......... Clear  Adapt.F.: ........ 1,224  Unexpect: ......... 0  |
|                            Duplicated: .......... 0  Sections:              |
|                            PCR: ............. 1,224  Unit start: ..... 204  |
|                            TSrate: .... 287,399 b/s                         |
|=============================================================================|
|  PID: 0x1FFF (8191)                                               Stuffing  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Global PID                Transport:                Discontinuities:       |
|  Bitrate: ..... 5,297 b/s  Packets: ............ 92  Expected: ......... 0  |
|  Access: .......... Clear  Adapt.F.: ............ 0  Unexpect: ......... 0  |
|                            Duplicated: .......... 0  Sections:              |
|                            PCR: ................. 0  Unit start: ....... 0  |
===============================================================================


===============================================================================
|  TABLES & SECTIONS ANALYSIS REPORT                                          |
===============================================================================

And here is another mux nearby. It does not lock and neumoDVB does not report frequency and symbol rate, even though it probably could in
this case because the timing loop has locked: 11671.708V. Of course it may just be that there is no dvb stream on this mux.
It is clearly QPSK, but not sure if it is DVBS-1 or DVBS-2

deeptho · Jul 4, 2022

In case you want to inspect yourself: I have uploaded a stream to

https://0x0.st/oQQG.ts

Listen very carefully, because that file will self-destruct in 1 month...

On linux you can listen to it with
mpv -aid 2 https://0x0.st/oQQG.ts

or if you prefer silence
mpv -aid 1 https://0x0.st/oQQG.ts

satesco · Jul 13, 2022

Regarding multistreams, I would like to point out an issue that is time-consuming and confusing to scan, and on the other hand, unnecessarily increases the list of transponders found by neumoDVB.
There are quite a lot of them on different satellites, where the scanning time is very long, it takes tens of minutes on one transponder. I have met them on Hispasat, and recently on 52.0E(TurkmanAlem/MonacoSat), on trps.11244 H,2000,2/3,8PSK. neumoDVB found at blindscan and saved all streams(256) on this transponder.
It wouldn't be a problem if we could value so many streams, but they are useless to us as long as we don't have the right device or applications. For this transponder,the satellite scan(position 53.0E/52.0E) took almost an hour!!!,which otherwise would have taken at most ten minutes. It is useless to move the scan to another transponder, because after a while, the app goes back to that transponder until it finds all the streams.Probably because of the scanning algorithm?
On 53.0E/52.0E, neumoDVB scanned 394 trps and locked 282 (not sure if they are transponders or streams?) and found only 2 DVB.
By the way, is it possible for the user to set the scan time himself, like it is under Windows? And in fact, what are the scanning steps you set for neumoDVB?
Under Windows, Crazyscan when it finds such transponders,it detects them and "hides" them,without the user having to wait until it finishes,as neumoDVB does. In fact your application saves so much redundant information which,as I said,is time consuming,but also useless for the user.
Is there a solution to save time when there are so many "data(useless)" (multi)streams besides switching/move to another transponder??

Llew · Jul 13, 2022

satesco said:
Regarding multistreams, I would like to point out an issue that is time-consuming and confusing to scan, and on the other hand, unnecessarily increases the list of transponders found by neumoDVB.
There are quite a lot of them on different satellites, where the scanning time is very long, it takes tens of minutes on one transponder. I have met them on Hispasat, and recently on 52.0E(TurkmanAlem/MonacoSat), on trps.11244 H,2000,2/3,8PSK. neumoDVB found at blindscan and saved all streams(256) on this transponder.
It wouldn't be a problem if we could value so many streams, but they are useless to us as long as we don't have the right device or applications. For this transponder,the satellite scan(position 53.0E/52.0E) took almost an hour!!!,which otherwise would have taken at most ten minutes. It is useless to move the scan to another transponder, because after a while, the app goes back to that transponder until it finds all the streams.Probably because of the scanning algorithm?
On 53.0E/52.0E, neumoDVB scanned 394 trps and locked 282 (not sure if they are transponders or streams?) and found only 2 DVB.
By the way, is it possible for the user to set the scan time himself, like it is under Windows? And in fact, what are the scanning steps you set for neumoDVB?
Under Windows, Crazyscan when it finds such transponders,it detects them and "hides" them,without the user having to wait until it finishes,as neumoDVB does. In fact your application saves so much redundant information which,as I said,is time consuming,but also useless for the user.
Is there a solution to save time when there are so many "data(useless)" (multi)streams besides switching/move to another transponder??

I agree, I first noticed the time problem when hitting a data TP in 30W earlier on. It would certainly speed things up to be able to move on to the next TP without waiting when blindscanning starts first sampling a data multistream, but I suppose doing that means we would lose the ability to check the rest of the stream to find possible useful information (as we can with the input stream checking facility in Crazyscan).

satesco · Jul 15, 2022

I don't know if it happens only to me, but when I want to scan the polarities separately, the same color-blue-appears on both, although they should be different colours, blue for Horizontal and orange/yellow for Vertical.
Is this correct or is it an error?

Llew · Jul 15, 2022

satesco said:
I don't know if it happens only to me, but when I want to scan the polarities separately, the same color-blue-appears on both, although they should be different colours, blue for Horizontal and orange/yellow for Vertical.
Is this correct or is it an error?

Good point. Same for me. It would be nice to see the different colours when checking saved graphs, rather than identifying markers etc.

frankviana · Jul 15, 2022

How to scan terrestrial channels? I tried, but no way to see ISDB-T frequencies. I have TBS 5520se.

Thx.

satesco · Jul 15, 2022

Not working for now. It seems that Deeptho is considering implementing terrestrial reception. Hopefully soon.

Llew · Jul 15, 2022

DVB-T not enabled in neumoDVB yet, even though it's selectable in the list. Needs some testing work I understand.

ISDB-T? probably even more work, the system is mainly only used in S.America; I don't know if deeptho needs access to the actual transmitted service to do the testing.

frankviana · Jul 15, 2022

Llew said:
DVB-T not enabled in neumoDVB yet, even though it's selectable in the list. Needs some testing work I understand.

ISDB-T? probably even more work, the system is mainly only used in S.America; I don't know if deeptho needs access to the actual transmitted service to do the testing.

I think it's not that complicated as it uses the same parameters as DVB-T.

Here we are using 6MHZ.

Example: Crazyscan2 and TBS5520se (but Windows).

Enigma2 (Mygica s270 or PixelView PlayTV USB SBTVD). Here tests using PixelView:

Only for see: DVB-T and 6MHZ, but ISDB-T drivers.

WhatsApp Image 2022-06-30 at 23.50.32.jpeg

WhatsApp Image 2022-07-01 at 00.38.19.jpeg

Tvheadend work very good too. I did several tests. Here the example:

Captura de tela de 2020-11-26 09-31-12.png

Captura de tela de 2020-11-26 09-30-56.png

Thx

CrazyCat · Jul 15, 2022

Just uploaded fixed CS2 with little fix for ISDB-T

https://sourceforge.net/projects/crazyscan/files/test/CrazyScan2.rar

frankviana said:
Example: Crazyscan2 and TBS5520se (but Windows).

View attachment 143945

frankviana · Jul 15, 2022

CrazyCat said:
Just uploaded fixed CS2 with little fix for ISDB-T

https://sourceforge.net/projects/crazyscan/files/test/CrazyScan2.rar

Thank you. I'll test at night (-3 GMT)

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