Quad lnb for weak signal (2020)

esto

esto

Member
Messages
89
My Satellite Setup
Kathrein uas 912
My Location
CE
I'm picking up standard def channels OK, but as alot move to HD (8PSK) they are now becoming "fringe" reception channels :/ From what I recall, Inverto Black Ultra always got alot of praise for fringe reception, but I beleive that LNB has been around a while. Is that still valid in 2020? Are there any newer/better LNBs out? Or are they all pretty much the same and it's "snake oil" being sold as newer/better?

I saw there is a new one by Inverto (Premium) that uses PLL instead of DRO. WIll this help with receiving/decoding HD (8PSK) channels? Is the Inverto Black Ultra also PLL? (No mention of PLL or DRO in the spec sheet) When did PLL become typical for average consumer-grade LNBs? I have right now a Technomate TM-4 which was better than some others that I tried, does anyone know if that has PLL? (No mention in the specs either )

Thanks!
 
Analoguesat

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
48,032
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
To be honest you would be better off with a bigger dish. If there is insufficient signal there to begin with a different lnb isnt going to make that much difference.

LNB's can vary depending on where in the construction run they were made. You get good ones and poorer ones in every batch.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Messages
29,901
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
PLLs have been around for a number of years on domestic LNBs, I think Sharp were behind the first design released for small dishes.

You can pick PLLs up for similar pricing to the older style DRO types owing to fewer components/smaller size/cheaper production.

Look at the Amsat thread for models out there
 
solly

solly

Specialist Contributor
Messages
4,842
My Location
Tel Aviv, Israel
@esto what satellite are you want to be receiver ?
what size your parabola and location ?
 
esto

esto

Member
Messages
89
My Satellite Setup
Kathrein uas 912
My Location
CE
I'm in Switzerland pointing at Astra 4A with a 85cm FUBA dish. I have a tree/shrub about 3m tall about 5m in front of the dish. I trimmed as much as I could of it, and I'm getting the Europe and Nordic BSS beams fairly good on standard definition, but the HD is borderline especially in bad weather.

When I read about PLL LNB's being affordable and on the mass market, it gave me some hope to improve the borderline HD signals I'm getting. I can't really fit a larger dish, and I've cut as much brush as possible, so last resort is the LNB... or watching cable channels when it rains...
 
esto

esto

Member
Messages
89
My Satellite Setup
Kathrein uas 912
My Location
CE
PLLs have been around for a number of years on domestic LNBs, I think Sharp were behind the first design released for small dishes.

You can pick PLLs up for similar pricing to the older style DRO types owing to fewer components/smaller size/cheaper production.

Look at the Amsat thread for models out there
Sorry, I tried searching, but couldn't find the thread you are talking about. Can you link to it please?
 
Captain Jack

Captain Jack

Модератор
Staff member
Messages
11,011
My Satellite Setup
See signature
My Location
North Somerset
Is it the HD channels on Astra 4a or SES5? SES5 is notoriously weaker (in UK) than Astra 4a, so it might be a similar situation for you.

5E should be quite high in the sky at your location, so a 3m bush 5m away shouldn't affect it. One quick way to test is to raise the dish slightly on the pole and see if it improves.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Messages
29,901
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
esto

esto

Member
Messages
89
My Satellite Setup
Kathrein uas 912
My Location
CE
I ordered some Inverto Premium PLL LNB's to replace my 3-4 year old Telestar ones. I'd like to point out that the Inverto's are not really black, but more of a dark blue color...good...now that I got the important technical observations/details out of the way, I'll move on to the performance... ;)

The Telestars were pretty good when comparing to other LNB's I had a few years ago, so I wasn't expecting any signal improvement with the Invertos, I was expecting an improvement of HD signal quality from the better oscillation of the PLL. But after doing a before/after check of some channels, I found that I actually had a small signal gain on several channels, but no improvement on signal quality (?). My TV's built-in SAT tuner goes from 0 to 100% in steps of 10 for Signal Strength and Signal Qual. Several channels went from 70->80% in strength, but quality always stayed the same. Both HD and SD channels. So I guess I'm 10% happy about that, but a little disappointed/wondering about why there was no HD channel quality improvement....?

Oh well, I guess I should have learned by now there's no magic LNB's and I shouldn't get my hopes up, but yet like a sucker I still do ;)

PS- The Noise Figure of the Telestar is 0.1dB and the Inverto 0.2dB, so on paper the Telestar should be the better performing LNB ;) I know it's all BS, but anyway, just observating ;)
 
Analoguesat

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
48,032
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Skybox F3
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
Strength is irrelevant - its not much more than a confirmation the lnb is connected to the receiver. The quality is the important one.

You need a bigger dish.
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Messages
29,901
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
There is a difference to be shown for PLL versus DRO style LNBs, though the manufacturers are using the newer technology to cut corners on manufacture and cost, rather than improve reception for the masses.

You could invest in an external reference LNB, or attempt to inject a standard LNB with an exteremely stable clock frequency which may help, however the broad band structure of the incoming signals will always work against you.

Other options include revising the power supply rails with quality regulators and filtering, or cryongenics to lower the overall temperature of the front end, but the advantages are still unlikely to compare to increasing the dish area by 20% or so.
 
esto

esto

Member
Messages
89
My Satellite Setup
Kathrein uas 912
My Location
CE
Yea, I would love to get a bigger dish, but I am at the max size already (85cm) due to physical constrainments. .. so I am playing with LNB's... and anything else...
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Messages
29,901
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
A 1m reflector will work better than any option you take on the LNB, though you might try a matched feedhorn , or perhaps a secondary reflector to convert the dish to a Gregorian design.
 
Top