bbc bbc2 bb3 itv 1 iv2 ...etc on a small dish HOW??

[antantant1]

hi everyone
does and one know anything about this fuerteuktv, i cant find or have no idea where they are going to get this from if any one has any ideas please let me know
thank you

 

[Analoguesat]

Its supposed to be starting (encrypted in Conax) off 22W. Theres been rumours for a while. I cant see it lasting long - its just not possible for someone to "pirate" transmissions like this and get away with it for any length of time.

 

[terryashbyash]

hi everyone
does and one know anything about this fuerteuktv, i cant find or have no idea where they are going to get this from if any one has any ideas please let me know
thank you

If in south east spain like me, either need min 1.45m (to 9pm local time) or 2.4m dish. I'm waiting for a luneberg lens to come on the market myself.

 

[Baxter Boy]

Take a look at this:

fuerteuktv

 

[rolfw]

Yes, that is the same URL which was in the first post, but we are not going to do their advertising for them, as their legitimacy is in question, always concerns me when there is only a mobile number on the site.

 

[Analoguesat]

And it looks like a UK mobile number to me. Rather strange for a Canaries Island firm

 

[antantant1]

thats what made me think but everybody over here is talking about this new satellite service coming but i fit sky on lanzarote and i seem to be the last to know i've been told that this service is running but after looking many many times i just cant see it i mean who would u buy the cards off sorry rolfw for posting the url and yes a english mob does look a little.. funny to me o well lets see if anything come's of this

 

[BadWithComputer]

We supply a card no address needed all we require is either English bank details or credit card for subscription to skys subscription channels.

Lol, you have to be a right div to fall for that one...

 

[BarMoo]

Well the nav link to their BBC/ITV/CHA4 whatever system is a blank page. Guess everyone will need to keep hold of the 3m.

 

[satfinder68]

Hello to the forum.
I find this topic quite interesting so I'd like to add some points.
I agree with Analoguesat this project would raise many legal concerns,but from the "ethics" point of view,we should remember what the bbc's policy has been so far.
When the bbc first went to satellite,they used encryption because of the wider beam and for copyright reasons,and even tied the cards to your postcode! So you could only receive your regional bbc1 version.
Do you remember all the phone calls and emails sent to the bbc to ask to unlock this regional block in order to let people receive the right region because of some inaccuracy in the postcode system?
The answer always was that for copyright and similar issues the bbc couldn't do anything about that.
Then,suddenly,all this concern didn't matter anymore in 2003,when the bbc decided to go free to air to save the encryption expenses.
What about the copyright issues? Doesn't the bbc buy program rights(American shows,sport events etc.) for showing in the UK only?
No problem,says the bbc,we'll move all our services to astra2d which has a tighter beam,so people abroad will need to buy huge dishes in order to get the signal.
This is not true.We all know that a 60-80cm dish is good enough to receive astra2d in France,Benelux,Switzerland,north-west Italy.
Everybody there,british expat or not,can easily watch all bbc channels without giving them a single penny(and of course no tv licence is needed).
Also,what about the local free and pay tv channels there? They usually have exclusive rights to broadcast programs in those areas.
The bbc are surely violating copyright laws by transmitting FTA on satellite.


Now,let's go back to the rumours about this new satellite service.
I think that the main concern for a company trying this is to find a satellite operator willing to lease them the single transponder needed to transmit the channels.
With Eutelsat and Astra obviously being out of question,here's the 22West option,assuming(but it's very unlikely) the operator is satisfied with the fact the channels are already available fta in many parts of Europe(but this wouldn't apply to ch4 and 5).
On the UPC cable holland website,they offer bbc1 and 2 on their basic package,and even bbc3 and 4 as an extra option!What does the bbc do to stop this?Does any UPC subscriber pay the licence fee?Somebody says there is some sort of agreement between the bbc and upc,but even this way opens up legal concerns about copyright laws.
And don't forget the many aerial re-broadcasts in Spain,even there nothing particular seems to happen from the bbc.

Well,I think it's very unlikely this service will start,but it's right to say the bbc have their faults.

Best regards to the forum,and any replies from members(particularly Analoguesat) will be appreciated.

 

[rolfw]

The only reason that the BBC put their channels on the Sky platform, was because they were missing out on a growing digital audience, it also happened that initially it was probably the cheaper/easier option to go encrypted, effectively as part of the package. ITV didn't follow this route, but found to their cost that they were missing out in entirely Digital households.

We all know that a number of explanations are often given for certain actions by the staff of broadcasters, but they seldom reflect the real reasons.

I'm pretty sure that the action by the BBC and later the ITV, was not spur of the moment, it had probably been contemplated for quite some time, given the potential savings.

The narrower beam of the Astra 2D satellite has obviously limited the easy reception of the BBC and ITV to fewer countries, but as you say, a slightly larger dish in many of the out of target footprint countries will enable reception. I really don't think that they, the BBC and ITV are too concerned with this, as the vast majority of the satellite viewing populace in Europe have fixed dishes, pointing at their own providers' satellite platforms and are probably oblivious to the availability of the UK channels and even if they are not, then want channels in their own language, not unlike the vast majority of UK satellite viewers.

If the major providers of content were concerned about the BBC transmitting in the clear, I'm sure that we would have heard more about it by now, I'm sure that they appreciate the language barriers which exist and feel that they can be as good as encryption.

With regard to the potential rebroadcast of the channels to other areas, then I still believe that they are on unsafe ground via satellite, it isn't a rumour, as the guys did state that they were going to do it, the question is whether they will get away with it.

The Dutch broadcasts are another thing altogether, as I'm sure that they pay the BBC for the privilege of the re-broadcast and this money goes back into the kitty.

 

[Analoguesat]

On the UPC cable holland website,they offer bbc1 and 2 on their basic package,and even bbc3 and 4 as an extra option!What does the bbc do to stop this?Does any UPC subscriber pay the licence fee?Somebody says there is some sort of agreement between the bbc and upc,but even this way opens up legal concerns about copyright laws.
Best regards to the forum,and any replies from members(particularly Analoguesat) will be appreciated.

Rolfw is correct - Dutch cable services pay a fee to the BBC for the right to carry the programming.

Therefore its completely above board

 

[Analoguesat]

All the problems will go away with the next generatioon of satellites - they will almost certainly have tighter spot beams, and/or multiple beams. With frequency re-use between beams it will be completely impossible to watch anything on the other beam.

 

[BarMoo]

I want to post a long reply too. It might be my longest to date!

The narrower beam of the Astra 2D satellite has obviously limited the easy reception of the BBC and ITV to fewer countries.

rolf, I am gonna go off on a mad'n here. I accept what you say is the truth - but somehow it seems like the lame'est post (well parts of it ) I have ever read on the matter.

Since all this kicked-off, we seemed to have come full circle. Like the politician who hands out some bad news on a Friday - its all forgotten by Monday (or two years plus in this case).

I remember the Brits standing up to their obligation to pay the Licence Fee and getting upset at Johnny Foreigner - then it was the copyright minefield - then it was about the BBC saving money. All, not necessarily in that order - but raised nevertheless.

All these lame points have proved to be utter crap and lies: foreigner's now get free brit telly, hollywood remains as blind? and the bbc has bought-up at least two additional transponders (and fired a couple of thousand staff). Licence Fee goes up - not down.

ITV followed the BBC's route (only after a lengthy delay) for two reasons IMHO. One, it is cheaper to be FTA (sic) and two, if the BBC could avoid any tantrums with Hollywood - the argument could be applied to ITV too - and now channel4 - and so, in the event that Hollywood wises up to this - UK TV might as well switch-off. Good for Channel 5 at last - but highly unlikely to happen.

Germany, spends a FORTUNE for rights'-holder TV that can be received on a pan-european basis. This is reflected in the rather high burden of the licence fee here.

OT: A gazillion folks can download 'free' music from the net and the MPAA has a bout of apoplexy: the BPI follow suite by locking-up as many teenager's as possible. Meanwhile, Brit TV (the higher value commodity) remains receivable ALL OVER Europe and no-one bats an eye-lid. Some-one at SES/Astra is lying to the Yanks for a start.'O'-red 'O'-red

Let us ponder what encryption was intented to do, uuumm.

No, 2D has not limited out-of-territory reception slightly/massively/at all IMHO - Brits, and foreigner's alike, can enjoy BBC1 from Dortmund to the south of France to the tip of Italy. And I don't say that because I require a 180cm dish in Berlin: I could move ...

I am simply astounded whenever I think of the ill-logical monkey politics of going FTA, and, in ITV's case, upping traffic where there isn't bandwidth and still maintaining the 4x4 ad rule to drive up spot income across ITV genre channels.

The only point I accept is that 'The Locals' generally have fixed dish systems. This is a logical understanding; which I also share.

So, why did Astra introduce spot beam satellites for DTH: because, clearly, they don't effing restrict to a point that would satisfy a rights' holder's curiosity as they go about selling content in the European market (most are usually encrypted services/PSB's).

Thankfully, SES/Astra only have two birds of this design, correct?

UUuurgg. Nasty bird, nasty bird.

Sorry, for finding an excuse to rant on this monumentally tedious subject again, yawn.

IMHO, encryption has a possible work_around (like for ex-pats) - spot beams have no work-around - as SKY clearly know. And as a final shin-kick: let no Brit ever utter on this board that UKTV is for island monkeys only; because, the rest of europe is chewing on your banana.

Yours,

Mark - in psuedo bad mood

 

[Analoguesat]

Thankfully, SES/Astra only have two birds of this design, correct?

Indeed ---> 2D and 3A

The real nasty was Astra 1K. Non overlapping spot beams (Iberia and north eastern Europe) with frequency reuse on the two beams so no chance of watching anything on the other beam.

 

[rolfw]

Just goes to show that you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

Some now moan about the restricted footprint, were they the same people who were moaning when there was no restriction, but there was encryption and also the fact that they couldn't choose their own receiver in which to place the viewing card ?

The average British licence payer does not give a toss that Johnny Foreigner is watching his or her BBC channels for nothing, as they mostly don't know that it is happening and as I said above, it is probably mainly expatriate viewers anyway and a very small percentage of the non-British European satellite viewing population.

 

[Lancelot]

I would like to know where all the BBC Worldwide money goes to (BBC Prime subs & advertising) as all the output is supposedly already paid for by us the licence fee payer. As rolf said I like most others couldn't give a whatsit that others are seeing beeb one etc, but a ready made best of the beeb channel would be good to give to the captive audience that's already in effect paid for it here.


L.

 

[satfinder68]

Thanks for all your competent replies to my post.
I just want to add a couple of things.
First,about the Dutch cable company,that's exactly what I meant:they pay a fee to rebroadcast the channels,but still the bbc doesn't hold the rights to show American programs abroad.


Second:in your posts,Rolf,you say:
The narrower beam of the Astra 2D satellite has obviously limited the easy reception of the BBC and ITV to fewer countries, but as you say, a slightly larger dish in many of the out of target footprint countries will enable reception. I really don't think that they, the BBC and ITV are too concerned with this, as the vast majority of the satellite viewing populace in Europe have fixed dishes, pointing at their own providers' satellite platforms and are probably oblivious to the availability of the UK channels and even if they are not, then want channels in their own language, not unlike the vast majority of UK satellite viewers.

and:
The average British licence payer does not give a toss that Johnny Foreigner is watching his or her BBC channels for nothing, as they mostly don't know that it is happening and as I said above, it is probably mainly expatriate viewers anyway and a very small percentage of the non-British European satellite viewing population.


I completely agree with you.
But that's the reason why I wrote my post:these companies might think they won't do much harm to the bbc by rebroadcasting from a quite remote location,such as 22West,where NO european pay tv service transmits (so,as you say,nobody with a fixed dish and a subscription to any european pay tv would get the service).
Mainly,only British expats in southern Spain and other countries outside the astra2d footprint would install this system.
Why should the bbc bother about this service,when they produce by themselves a major "signal overspill" covering nearly a third of Europe?
(It would be different if the bbc used encryption).
Of course they wouldn't give any authorization,but from this to start all sorts of legal actions appears unlikely.
I still think the decisive role could be played by the satellite operator:if they accepted to lease the required transponders,with the signal being uplinked from outside the UK,then the bbc would have many difficulties in trying to stop the service.



Regards to all.

 

[digi24]

Here in Athens we need anything larger than 5m to get Astra 2D, so depending on the reliability of the service offered, it sounds as an idea to be considered. NSS7 (talking about a Ku transmission through the Europe & Middle East beam) needs only 1m !

 

[rolfw]

I completely agree with you.
But that's the reason why I wrote my post:these companies might think they won't do much harm to the bbc by rebroadcasting from a quite remote location,such as 22West,where NO european pay tv service transmits (so,as you say,nobody with a fixed dish and a subscription to any european pay tv would get the service).
Mainly,only British expats in southern Spain and other countries outside the astra2d footprint would install this system.
Why should the bbc bother about this service,when they produce by themselves a major "signal overspill" covering nearly a third of Europe?
(It would be different if the bbc used encryption).
Of course they wouldn't give any authorization,but from this to start all sorts of legal actions appears unlikely.
I still think the decisive role could be played by the satellite operator:if they accepted to lease the required transponders,with the signal being uplinked from outside the UK,then the bbc would have many difficulties in trying to stop the service.

There is a big difference between overspill when transmitting to a legitimate audience and deliberate re-transmission without licence to a new remote audience as a money making venture. I believe it naive to think that BBC and ITV would let this go uncontested, or that there would be too many difficulties for them to contest it, as NSS are based within the EU.

Am I correct in my suspicion that you perhaps have some interest in this business over and above those of being a potential customer?