F15 tuner sensitivity

[timo_w2s]

I thought I'd posted this already but I guess I forgot...

A few weeks ago I compared the tuners of the F15 to the Sky DRX595 (the small non-PVR Sky HD box, which I believe is similar to a DRX890 reception wise, and slightly better than the Pace 2600C1) and an old Technomate 6900 non-Super using a few weak southern beam signals from 28.2E on an 80cm dish in Helsinki.

The conclusion was the F15 easily beat the TM6900. A few channels that the TM6900 couldn't lock at all were showing with just a bit of breakup on the F15.

The DRX595 was very similar to the F15. Video wise not sure if I could say which was better (the DRX595 had a few random blocks, the F15 missed whole frames occasionally but no real blockiness), but perhaps the DRX595 held on to the sound a tiny bit better. Not really much in it. However, as reported in other threads, I found that when my Inverto Black Ultra was connected via a short (3m) cable directly to the F15 it was overpowering the tuner. By looping the signal through a DiSEqC switch and the TM6900 before feeding it into the F15 it give me much higher signal qualities (giving the similar results to the DRX595).

I also was able to lock on to a number of other transponders on other satellites with significant improvements over the TM6900. For example the Swiss HD transponder on 10971/H on Hotbird won't hold a lock long enough to decode anything on the TM6900 but the F15 was working with no problems. A number of transponders from 9E where also visible for the first time using the F15.

Attached are a couple of photos of side by side comparisons from 28.2E.

I got to say I'm impressed.

 

[Vipersan]

Thanks for this Timo ..glad you are impressed ..
..I know I certainly was ..
..and still am 99% of the time
Now If they would just sort out the AAC-H3 sound incompatibility issue ..I'd put up with anything else I occasionally gripe about.
The reason this is important to me is ..the F15 can lock channels non of my other boxes can ..
Sadly on occasions with no sound ..but a perfect picture ..
I can't even resort to using a different stb ...as those channels are well below threshold on t'other boxes.
rgds
VS

 

[digi247]

Thanks for this Timo ..glad you are impressed ..
..I know I certainly was ..
..and still am 99% of the time
Now If they would just sort out the AAC-H3 sound incompatibility issue ..I'd put up with anything else I occasionally gripe about.
The reason this is important to me is ..the F15 can lock channels non of my other boxes can ..
Sadly on occasions with no sound ..but a perfect picture ..
I can't even resort to using a different stb ...as those channels are well below threshold on t'other boxes.
rgds
VS

VS

Do you think this could be fixed with a Firmware upgrade or is it possibly a hardware issue with no fix.

 

[Vipersan]

VS

Do you think this could be fixed with a Firmware upgrade or is it possibly a hardware issue with no fix.

I suspect its possible to fix in firmware ..
Its been done on other boxes ..
It could be a hardware issue ..but no way to know for sure .
Support for this excellent box ..has damned near dried up ...except in Russian amateur circles.
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

..There is also the possibility that the audio only ...not the picture on these channels is encrpted ..which is why I'd like for someone who can access such channels particularly in Cband on a different set top box to confirm this one way or t'other.
Unlikely anyone in the UK can help ..
Possibly someone like Huevos as he's nearer the intended service area ?
2 to try at 55W would be
3853 H
tp 22

Jamaican mux
DVB-S 2220-7/8
-----------------------------

4097 H
tp 26 XHTVL Canal 9 DVB-S2 2272-5/6
QPSK
------------------------------

Also Silverbird at 37 West

No audio on this either ....perfect picture and high signal levels ..
Just no audio..


This one I'm going to test myself with the S9HD..
as I should be able to lock it ok
without using the F15
rgds
3773 H
tp 3 Silverbird TV DVB-S2
MPEG-2 1795-3/4
8PSK


Perhaps someone else with an F15 can confirm the lack of audio from this channel ...
Process of elimination to confirm its not my F15 specifically thats at fault.

There are many more that cause me missing audio problems ...and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

If nothing else this shows the F15s superiority again ..
The Openbox S9HD simply cannot get a lock on silverbird ..and metro TV drops in and out..
The F15 locks both of these channels solidly at around 10db ..and 13 db respectively
Will try again tonight ..as the signals are a little TOD dependent.
rgds
VS

Both channels are LSR ..and Silverbird is 8psk ..
These may be relevant factors.

 

[timo_w2s]

I suspect its possible to fix in firmware ..
Its been done on other boxes ..
It could be a hardware issue ..but no way to know for sure .
Support for this excellent box ..has damned near dried up ...except in Russian amateur circles.
rgds
VS

Have you thought about trying a Technomate box? When I've got some money together I might try a TM6902 (posted about this in another thread) as although the F15 is a great little box, I think TM has better support.

 

[Vipersan]

Have you thought about trying a Technomate box? When I've got some money together I might try a TM6902 (posted about this in another thread) as although the F15 is a great little box, I think TM has better support.

Not going to change to any other box Timo...unless it can be proven to me that the replacement has the same gain/sensitivity as the F15 box ..
I am a dxer working with extreme fringe reception as you know ...so tuner first ..all else is secondary.
rgds
VS

 

[timo_w2s]

Not going to change to any other box Timo...unless it can be proven to me that the replacement has the same gain/sensitivity as the F15 box ..
I am a dxer working with extreme fringe reception as you know ...so tuner first ..all else is secondary.
rgds
VS

Sure I appreciate that, but I just think if that hardware is so similar the newer TM boxes just might be as sensitive. The question is someone needs to test them side by side to be sure....

 

[Vipersan]

Sure I appreciate that, but I just think if that hardware is so similar the newer TM boxes just might be as sensitive. The question is someone needs to test them side by side to be sure....

...Well ...looks like you've got yourself a job Timo

Sadly ..I can't afford to throw any money at a new box just for test purposes ..having spent my 'cash reserves ' on wings so Christina can fly.
;)
rgds
VS

 

[timo_w2s]

...Well ...looks like you've got yourself a job Timo

Sadly ..I can't afford to throw any money at a new box just for test purposes ..having spent my 'cash reserves ' on wings so Christina can fly.
;)
rgds
VS

Problem is I've just spent money on an F15 so finding it hard to justify not eating for a while and buying yet another box too. ;) But I certainly will try and test a new TM sometime in the future if I can and would post the results here... just don't hold your breath...

 

[Vipersan]

Problem is I've just spent money on an F15 so finding it hard to justify not eating for a while and buying yet another box too. ;) But I certainly will try and test a new TM sometime in the future if I can and would post the results here... just don't hold your breath...

Yep I fully concur with that Timo ...hard to digest satellite signals and stay alive.
Good for the soul ..not so good for the body..
rgds
VS

 

[digi247]

I would love to help out but after having a clearout of receivers to refresh them with a Vu Uno and an F15 i cannot justify another £200+ for another one LOL, Work is slow also so thats no help.

Although the 6902 looks to have identical software to its younger sibling the 5402 so should share the same tuner revision also i would imagine, As for support phantom seems to be breaking more than he fixwes on some of the later patches as people seem to be reverting back to older firmware revisions.

 

[Vipersan]

..There is also the possibility that the audio only ...not the picture on these channels is encrpted ..which is why I'd like for someone who can access such channels particularly in Cband on a different set top box to confirm this one way or t'other.
Unlikely anyone in the UK can help ..
Possibly someone like Huevos as he's nearer the intended service area ?
2 to try at 55W would be
3853 H
tp 22

Jamaican mux
DVB-S 2220-7/8
-----------------------------

4097 H
tp 26 XHTVL Canal 9 DVB-S2 2272-5/6
QPSK
------------------------------

Also Silverbird at 37 West

No audio on this either ....perfect picture and high signal levels ..
Just no audio..


This one I'm going to test myself with the S9HD..
as I should be able to lock it ok
without using the F15
rgds
3773 H
tp 3 Silverbird TV DVB-S2
MPEG-2 1795-3/4
8PSK


Perhaps someone else with an F15 can confirm the lack of audio from this channel ...
Process of elimination to confirm its not my F15 specifically thats at fault.

There are many more that cause me missing audio problems ...and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
rgds
VS

Ok ..just locked Silverbird @37W Cband with the Openbox S9HD ..
And yes we have sound ..
The F15 when locking this same channel does not ..
So ..either its hardware incompatible ...software incompatible ...or faulty.
Could someone with access to an F15 do a straightforward check on this channel to see if they too are missing Sound..
If they do ..then we should compare firmwares in use ..
or I must entertain the possibility I have a faulty box ..
If like me there is no sound ..then I suspect its fixable in firmware ..but sadly there is next to no support ..so not holding my breath on this one.
anyone ?
rgds
VS

 

[aceb]

It's not directly related but I have a real job getting audio from this one too, it needs just the right selection of codec and renderer, I think Congo has the same problem too, not near the sat PC at the moment to check.

 

[Vipersan]

It's not directly related but I have a real job getting audio from this one too, it needs just the right selection of codec and renderer, I think Congo has the same problem too, not near the sat PC at the moment to check.

Thanks Paul ...You give me hope that this is indeed a firmware issue ..
As to wether it will ever be fixed ...anybodys guess..

If it were just this one channel affected ..I'd put up with it ..
But many channels are affected..
Congo is another
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

Anyone like irony ?

Just scanned Jamaican mux at 55W 10 times with the openbox S9HD ...and must have caught the signal on a peak ...
It locked on it long enough to add the channels to the list ..
Well ..it proves there should be sound ...its broken and badly fragmented ..but its there ,,,unlike on the F15 ..
Now for the ironic part ,,,these's insufficient signal to provide a picture on the S9 ..
So Picture on the F15 and no sound..
Sound on the S9 but no picture..

Arrrrghhhhhh!
This is so frustrating.
VS

 

[nelson_b]

hi -- vipersan
just checked --3773 H tp 3 Silverbird TV DVB-S2 MPEG-2 1795-3/4 8PSK with my spiderbox HD 9000
i get audio on -- audio track 3 - left hand channel -- with an awful buzz in the background .
the right hand channel is music

cheers ----

 

[Vipersan]

hi -- vipersan
just checked --3773 H tp 3 Silverbird TV DVB-S2 MPEG-2 1795-3/4 8PSK with my spiderbox HD 9000
i get audio on -- audio track 3 - left hand channel -- with an awful buzz in the background .
the right hand channel is music

cheers ----

Thanks for checking Nelson..
I get the same including the buzz in the background on the S9..
..and of course ...silence and a perfect picture on the F15..
cest la vie
VS

 

[aceb]

4097 H
tp 26 XHTVL Canal 9 DVB-S2 2272-5/6
QPSK

Just checked this one, audio is in the clear, although the channel scans in as VHSA the logo is XHTVL9. No joy locking Jamaica so far.