New system -multiswitch, IRS, cable & dish comments much appreciated :)

[JasX]

Hey all,

<Sorry if this is in the wrong place, seems to cover a few areas>

After 2 years of badgering a group of us (residents) has finally persuaded our managing agent to let us have a sky/satellite system installed in our block so we can hook up for sky or freesat... local sky installer has been round and quoted us a couple of options.

Typically the block was only built in 2005 but for some reason it never occured to the builder to pre-wire anything for satellite

Anyway here's what the local 'sky approved' installer is proposing:

New Dish on roof
<-----(new cable 8m)----->
New multiswitch
<-----(new cable 12m straight run)----->
joint
<-------(existing RG6 cable into wrong side of living room)------>
joint
<------(new cable around room to TV point)------>

Block is 4 stories high, 16 individual apartments, 4 on each floor.

For the Multiswitch they've offered a few options
-all use 'Vision' hardware, are they a reliable brand?

-one involves 4 passive 8-way V4-806G switches daisy chained to provide 32 feeds.

_http://www.vision-products.co.uk/assets/products/datasheets/V4-812L.pdf

_http://www.vision-products.co.uk/ass...ts/V4-812L.pdf

-the other involves a single 32-way multiswitch V5-532 think they're offering the unpowered one but as mains is readily available would we be better off insisting on the V5-532MP powered version?

_www.vision-products.co.uk/assets/products/datasheets/V5-532.pdf

_http://www.vision-products.co.uk/ass...ets/V5-532.pdf


_http://www.vision-products.co.uk/assets/products/datasheets/V5-532MP.pdf

_http://www.vision-products.co.uk/ass...s/V5-532MP.pdf

I'm leaning quite strongly towards the single unit powered one?[/COLOR][/I]

also I don't quite understand how IRS is delivered, if TV ans atellite (and radio) go into the multiswitch do they all get piped down the same single coax run to each end use point? if so what kind of device is needed to separate them out (built into the back of the faceplate)? or does each feed need a separate cable?

Cabling its being fitted by an approved sky contractor, would we be ok to trust them to install decent quality cable? would we possibly be better long term buying a few drums of decent quality PF100 and free issuing it to them just to be on the safe side?

Found I could pickup this locally, was mentioned in another post on here, unless there are any better suggestions? (claims 80 strans coppeer on foil, losses seem slightly higher than WF100 by about 1Db would that be noticable?)

_http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CAPF100W.html"]White Foam Filled Digital Satellite & Aerial Cable

Dish, we're in south london and they're proposing an "80cm dish", any questions its worth asking beyond that about it? there are a fair few tall buildings to the south within 60-100m (city centre location so they're big reflective things covered in glass) i guess we'll have to suck it and see there....

The number of downstream joints is a bit unfortunate but the RG6 (single feed) is the only thing that was pre-wired into each flats living room, i'm hoping it'll be ok for basic sky and perhaps some HD? making 32 sockets available at the switch leaves things open for the awkward work pulling in extra cable in future (DIY job).

The sky installer has ideas we'll be able to get Sky+ either using a stacker/destacker device on the downstream 'multijoint' cable.

they also suggested we could use the existing TV coax feed to carry the necessary second feed in (12m, air spaced dielectric, no foil, very few copper strands).

Personally reading around this forum I'm not convinced of either of these last 2 options but would appreciate any experience anyone else has?

Installer is also proposing installing faceplates but i've read elsewhere they're generally discouraged as another source of loss?

Any comments much appreciated, I'm the one caught liasing between the other residents/landlord/installer and don;t want to end up hugely unpopular if we end up with something horrible that doesn't work at all.

[Moderation] Unparsed 5 URL's

 

[satelliteman]

Please make note of forum rules regarding posting of live links.

also I don't quite understand how IRS is delivered, if TV and satellite (and radio) go into the multiswitch do they all get piped down the same single coax run to each end use point? if so what kind of device is needed to separate them out (built into the back of the faceplate)? or does each feed need a separate cable?

By the use of a filtered tri/quad plate.

Cabling its being fitted by an approved sky contractor, would we be ok to trust them to install decent quality cable? would we possibly be better long term buying a few drums of decent quality PF100 and free issuing it to them just to be on the safe side?

Just check they are going to use double screened benchmarked cable for the job.

Dish, we're in south london and they're proposing an "80cm dish", any questions its worth asking beyond that about it? there are a fair few tall buildings to the south within 60-100m (city centre location so they're big reflective things covered in glass) i guess we'll have to suck it and see there....

Buildings are not an issue, as long as you have line of sight to the satellite. An 80cm minimum is the norm for IRS.

The sky installer has ideas we'll be able to get Sky+ either using a stacker/destacker device on the downstream 'multijoint' cable.

The installers need to run dual feed to each apartment allowing for sky plus/pvr functionality.

they also suggested we could use the existing TV coax feed to carry the necessary second feed in (12m, air spaced dielectric, no foil, very few copper strands).

Not recommended as you can not earth bond to this type cable. It will not trip the RCD in the event of a fault (assuming it's going to be earth bonded back to the PME).

 

[JasX]

Please make note of forum rules regarding posting of live links.

yup will do, sry. Thx for taking time to reply

By the use of a filtered tri/quad plate.

ahhh kk, does adding DAB/FM/terresterial degrade the satellite signals much (ie if they wern't there on the same coax could you expect better satellite performance?), not entirely convinced they'd be used much....

also if they're present does that make filters essential on all outlets (ie could you plug an unfilteres cable straight into a sky/freesat box as if the others wern't there if you wern't interested in them?

The installers need to run dual feed to each apartment allowing for sky plus/pvr functionality.

yeah thats a bit of an issue as new cabling for that leg will turn a 1 day install job into a 5 day job and no doubt add £££££ to the quote, external cabling is a no no owing to a grade 1 listed building next door which happens to be owned by the landlord....

Only works out vaguely economic if we can be confident of getting at lease 'basic' sky/freesat to work using the existing RG-6 wiring (but leave options/spare sockets open for a fiddly DIY job in future if individuals fancy it)

Not recommended as you can not earth bond to this type cable. It will not trip the RCD in the event of a fault (assuming it's going to be earth bonded back to the PME).

thought so, is there anything to be careful of about where they plan tie the earth to? (ie separation from other earthed equipment to avoid noise being picked up)

Buildings are not an issue, as long as you have line of sight to the satellite. An 80cm minimum is the norm for IRS.

minimum? is that just to get the signal level up due to the larger number of end users? (and perhaps less of an issue with a mains powered multiswitch rather than line powered?)

 

[satelliteman]

does adding DAB/FM/terresterial degrade the satellite signals much (ie if they wern't there on the same coax could you expect better satellite performance?), not entirely convinced they'd be used much....

No as there are fixed losses through the switch and outlet.

yeah thats a bit of an issue as new cabling for that leg will turn a 1 day install job into a 5 day job and no doubt add £££££ to the quote, external cabling is a no no owing to a grade 1 listed building next door which happens to be owned by the landlord....

Try searching for stacker/de-stacker and of course SCR, although the latter is only supported by a handful of receivers.

thought so, is there anything to be careful of about where they plan tie the earth to? (ie separation from other earthed equipment to avoid noise being picked up)

A robust connection back to the PME is required of minimum 4mm. Note: Earth bonding is probably out of scope for discussion on a hobbyist forum.

minimum? is that just to get the signal level up due to the larger number of end users? (and perhaps less of an issue with a mains powered multiswitch rather than line powered?)

No, multi-switches either cascaded, mains or receiver powered manufacture/generate noise. By using a larger dish you reduce the carrier to noise threshold/ lower the noise floor of the incoming signal.

 

[PaulR]

does adding DAB/FM/terresterial degrade the satellite signals much (ie if they wern't there on the same coax could you expect better satellite performance?), not entirely convinced they'd be used much....

No as there are fixed losses through the switch and outlet.

In theory if you were to do without the signal plate at all then you could feed either a satellite receiver or an FM radio or a DAB radio and this would reduce the loss by a dB or so. In practice not worth doing without the outlet plate as the multiswitch should output enough signal for it not to matter.