Problem receiving freesat with new system

[dodecahedron]

Hi, I finally decided to get a motorised satellite system and have a problem. I set everything up according to the blurb that came with it and all the guides available on forums. To set it up I used usals to go to Thor at 1w it showed signal at 53% but quality at 0%. I then went to astra at 28.2 where the signal was 74% and quality about the same. I then went back to Thor to tweak the dish settings , went back up the ladders for the umpteenth time and connected a konig sat finder in line.
I disconnected the receiver cable from the motor and connected that to the meter and took the patch lead to the motor, I turned the control knob as it said in the instructions to bring the scale up to 5 at which point the meter started to whine ?? so i turned it back a little and tried flexing the dish to see how the signal changed but the meter never moved, went back down into the house and the on screen display was showing no signal at all. I disconnected the meter reconnected the cables, no signal, Ive checked the F connectors and can't see a problem. I suspect something has got fried either the LNB or the box or both. The instructions for the meter right at the end say that if the LNB exceeds 60 db gain you should fit a 5 db attenuator between the LNB and the meter. The LNB is an Icecrypt 0.1db when has a gain dead on 60 db.
I hope some of you knowlegable guys will be able to help.

Thanks

 

[Mickha]

Ignore the signal strength and concentrate on the quality. You were almost there, when using the meter. What you needed to do was once it was reading 5, about half way, gently move the dish until the signal increases to 10, then turn the knob, to get it back to 5, gently move the dish, to get it back to 10, and continue the process until you get the strongest signal possible. Only then check your satellite receiver to see what channels you get and what satellite you've aligned your dish to.
If you now have no light on, when your meter is connected, try re-doing all the connections, ensuring you have sufficient braid touching the F connector.

 

[dodecahedron]

Thanks for that, I don't appear to have a signal from any satellite inc astra where I had about 74% according to the on screen menu. Will get back on the roof and recheck all the F connectors if the vertical rain ever stops

 

[Lazarus]

You always get a steady quiescent reading even with the dish pointed at the ground >>> It merely indicates, in effect, that the LNB is powered. On some boxes, this reading appears significant - but if it never changes, then it's misleading you: What you are looking for is upswings in "Strength" and then ( and crucially) Quality.

 

[Lazarus]

It is often a great help if you post some pics: A couple of general views plus a couple showing eg motor bracket latitude scale (It's a common howler to use the Elevation scale on the other side of the bracket instead).

 

[Lazarus]

And some variants of the Icecrypt LNB have a peculiarity whereby zero skew (which is what you should physically set the LNB at) does not occur with the F connection pointing vertically down.

There are Threads about it here somewhere .................. !

But that shouldn't affect the price of cheese at this juncture - just be aware of it for when you've got the system working and tracking correctly.

 

[dodecahedron]

Thanks appreciate your comments about the motor angles but double checked this before hauling it up onto the roof also set the dish bracket to around 22 degrees based on 30 - DEC angle of 7.6 (latitude 54.51). One thing not happy with is L bracket which seemed to deflect under the weight it has a long leg but really short up stand. Will try and get a photo of position ,but still raining and everyone fancies going for a beer which seems like a good idea

 

[Lazarus]

Don't forget that the Dish Elevation setting is no more than a rough starting point and that will also need altering to obtain correct alignment: With the best will in the world, the calculated figure only applies for an ideal system ie One where there is no error whatsoever in the rest of the structure eg Pole verticality, precision of setting Motor angle, issues with clamps slipping and skewing during assembly etc.

So not only do you need to move the motor/dish assembly as one around the pole to align Azimuth, but also you need to adjust the dish bracket.

But the pics really are important - It's just so much easier to understand whether all the checking, double-checking etc. has been to good effect.



Beer first, though: Obviously!

 

[Analoguesat]

Thanks appreciate your comments about the motor angles but double checked this before hauling it up onto the roof also set the dish bracket to around 22 degrees based on 30 - DEC angle of 7.6 (latitude 54.51). One thing not happy with is L bracket which seemed to deflect under the weight it has a long leg but really short up stand. Will try and get a photo of position ,but still raining and everyone fancies going for a beer which seems like a good idea

L-brackets are not great - they can wobble around in gales.

You would be better off replacing it with a T&K bracket & a suitable length of steel pole

 

[trigger]

Check the LNB settings on your receiver - it should be set to universal (9.75-10.6)
I have seen various receivers recently where the default is set to odd settings.

 

[dodecahedron]

Right guys firstly thanks for all your advice, on monday night got a spare half hour, dragged the ladders back out took the sat meter up top remade all connections connected up set as per instructions moved the motor round the pole dish up and down no change at all. Decided then the LNB was dead, also looked at the bracket flexing in the wind and decided to make a purpose built one, packed up went in and ordered inverto ultra LNB as they seem popular. Tonight went up top fit the new LNB lo and behold got a signal 64% but no quality off Thor 1 west, went to astra 28.2 signal 73% quality 69% . Took it all down bolted up the over engineered fully adjustable pole mount which doesn't flex refit everything as before, went back to astra scanned it and pulled in a load of channels. Watching some old rubbish while doing this.
My problem is I'm at at the same point, apart from scanning for channels, as I was at the weekend when I connected the Konig sat meter in line to fine tune the dish and obviously killed the LNB. Has anyone heard of a problem with these meters, don't want to do another LNB, this one lights up as it's supposed to but gives off a whine which increases along with reading as you turn adjusting knob, it starts about 3 on the scale.
Oh and it was connected up the correct way according to the markings, you've guessed I double checked.
I feel I'm not going to get the best out of this set up without fine tuning

 

[Mickha]

You are using the meter correctly, yor increase/decreasethe sensitivity to fine tune your dish alignment. First you turn the knob left, to get the meter reading at about 5, even when you're not aligned to a satellite. You then move the dish, to get the meter to the max, turn the knob to the right, so it reaches 5, then continue doing this until you can't increase the signal any more, the noise indicates when the signal improves, or gets worse.
Once you have the dish aligned correctly you change the dish elevation, gently, to increas the signal quality even more.
I would move the motor back to Thor, 0.8W, tune in BBC World, a Free to Air channel, set the meter to about 5, then gently adjust the dishes elevation, and position, until you start improving the signal quality, get the maximum you can, from the meter, then check BBC World on your sat receiver, for strength/quality.
For a rough guide, as to where to point your dish, check dishpointer.com, type in your postcode, select Thor 0.8W, from the drop down satellite box, zoom in on the map, and move the balloon icon to where your dish is located.
The fact that you have the dish aligned to Astra 2, 28.2E, shows everything is working and you know how to use the meter.

 

[dodecahedron]

Thanks Mickha, I'm happy enough with what to do. My concerns are whether connecting the meter in line kills off another LNB, I can see no reason why it should but something happened last time .

 

[Mickha]

Connecting the Meter shouldn't kill the LNB, LNB's tend to be more robust than some people think.

 

[smoggy07]

Thanks Mickha, I'm happy enough with what to do. My concerns are whether connecting the meter in line kills off another LNB, I can see no reason why it should but something happened last time .

If that's a concern, unplug the receiver, then connect the meter and have someone plug the receiver back in, do the same again when you are finished

 

[dodecahedron]

Right guys thanks for all your comments and advice I now have what I think is an operational system, just one question and bear in mind I'm new to this..When I finished aligning the dish on Thor I had a signal of about 75% but no quality so I opened the transponder list and clicked on the next one down which changed the polarisation from H to V or vice versa and got quality at 73% so I pulled a load of channels many seem to be duplicated.What I need to know is do all TPs transmit the same date or do I have scan every one that I get quality from

 

[Mickha]

You need to scan in all available transponders, well at least the ones you want to watch, try lyngsat.com:

http://www.lyngsat.com/Thor-5-6-and-Intelsat-10-02.html

http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/atlantic.html

The selected transponder might no longer be transmitting, please try other, active, transponders, both Horizontal, and Vertical, to see if you're getting both polarities.
If you are getting one set of polarities, like Vertical, but not Horizontal, then this can be due to a few reasons, including a faulty LNB, or possibly a wrongly skewed LNB, skewing is rotating the LNB for more signal quality, when on your nearest true south satellite, like Thor, have the coax cable pointing straight down.

 

[dodecahedron]

Thanks Mickha deleted all channels and reloaded the FTA from astra. I should have watched what it did first time as it seems to scan all TPs some go through OK others flagged as NG (no good?)
One last thing the dish is on the chimney stack and the installation manual mentions lightning protection would a coax earth bond block be enough or should the dish be grounded also.

 

[Mickha]

What size is this dish? Always risky instaling a large dish, and motor, on a chimney, not just because of the weight but you also have to factor in high winds.

 

[dodecahedron]

What size is this dish? Always risky instaling a large dish, and motor, on a chimney, not just because of the weight but you also have to factor in high winds.

80cm dish , I'm a qualified building surveyor and fully understand weight and wind loadings which is another reason I fabricated a new pole mount for the dish instead of the L bracket to remove point loading and lower the turning moment bringing it much closer to the stack.