Sky q communal earthing

[yonewuser]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum, having signed up to get your advice as I am in a spot of confusion.

I have just moved into a new flat which has a communal satellite system with a communal dish on the roof. We have just had a Sky engineer around today morning who has refused to fit our sky Q in saying the switch in our communal cupboard is not properly grounded and that he is not allowed to work on it to install the adapter.

He has asked me to get in touch with the building management to earth it and has also left a non compliance form in the cupboard.

I have read other reports of engineers trying to avoid a install on Friday afternoon so just wanted to check with you guys to see if this is a genuine issue that I need to raise with the building management.

Would appreciate your advice please.

Thanks!

 

[william-1]

Some replies here may help you:-
Earth connection cable issue - SatsUK

 

[Channel Hopper]

The plug in adapters I have seen do not pass through the four polarity wire that would be required for the remaining tenants to continue viewing normal satellite/terrestrial signals.

Unitron DCSS 422 DSCR Add on SkyQ Legacy Adaptor | eBay

Unitron sky q add on multi-switch for use with converting existing multi-switch to sky q at 2 points.

www.ebay.co.uk

Sky may not have understood what was required before turning up.

 

[a33]

We have just had a Sky engineer around today morning who has refused to fit our sky Q in saying the switch in our communal cupboard is not properly grounded and that he is not allowed to work on it to install the adapter.

I see only grounding for 11 cables. Are the other cables not grounded?

In Germany also the multiswitch should be grounded on communal services (don't know the UK or dutch regulations about that). But I don't see a facility for that on the Spaun?

Greetz,
A33

 

[Channel Hopper]

All Spaun switches I have used come with an earthing terminal. I would suspect it is just under the CE mark on the front

 

[Terryl]

The cables in your second photo all go through a ground block, so the whole system is grounded, the so called engineer didn't quit understand that, re-training looks to be in his future.

 

[Lazarus]

The cables in your second photo all go through a ground block, so the whole system is grounded, the so called engineer didn't quit understand that, re-training looks to be in his future.

Yep. Plain as day.

 

[a33]

The cables in your second photo all go through a ground block, so the whole system is grounded,

Are you seeing what I am seeing?
I see only 11 cables to and fro the ground block, and the MS not being grounded.
So what leads you to the conclusion that ¨the whole system is grounded¨?

What I understand from german websites (and I'm no expert at it whatsoever) is that all parts and cables must be grounded, to call it a grounded system. So that when you disconnect some cables or parts, that all the parts still have a ground connection.

Safety for the ones that work on the system, especially for communal services, because you never know what is connected to the system at all the other ends of it...

But I don't know about the UK rules and regulations.

Greetz,
A33

 

[rolfw]

I would assume that this is a subsidiary system, with the head end being on a different floor, the four satellite inputs are DC blocked and the extra two feeds may head off to another floor where they probably pass through an earth bar. It is recommended that each individual powered unit and or splitter feeding apartments is earthed to the main earth terminal, either direct, or via an earthed tray or earth block.

Having said that, you probably dodged a bullet, as I've seen many systems messed up by sky splitting the incoming satellite feeds to feed their dSCR, without thought to the signal to the other apartments. The adapters Sky use for a single Q feed to one or two apartments, take four universal outputs from the switch and pass through two legacy TV/Sat feeds and two dSCR feeds with both Legacy and SCR modes.

 

[Terryl]

Are you seeing what I am seeing?
I see only 11 cables to and fro the ground block, and the MS not being grounded.
So what leads you to the conclusion that ¨the whole system is grounded¨?

What I understand from german websites (and I'm no expert at it whatsoever) is that all parts and cables must be grounded, to call it a grounded system. So that when you disconnect some cables or parts, that all the parts still have a ground connection.

Safety for the ones that work on the system, especially for communal services, because you never know what is connected to the system at all the other ends of it...

But I don't know about the UK rules and regulations.

Greetz,
A33

Any one cable connected to the ground will ground the whole system if that cable is run to any multi switch or distribution block with a metal body, metal shielding in the coax will do that for you, that ground strip with all the cables run through it will ground the whole system quite nicely, adding a copper wire to bond the switch to it, then to any ground point would be over kill, but some inspector's and local regulations may be a bit picky.

The 11 cables attached to this ground block I assume (with out a pic of the whole setup) come from somewhere, more then likely the multi-switch, this ground block would be an effective ground for the whole system, but I would have used a heavier gauge ground wire for that many connections.

With all coax going through that ground block, you could remove all but one and the multi-switch would still be grounded. (if that coax goes back to the multi-switch)

If the multi-switch had been grounded then the ground block it's self would not have been needed, but in this case more then likely added for code requirement.

With RF systems that have many connections and cables run to who knows where, you have to be carfull on the ground system, you do not want to create a ground loop in that system, over grounding or bonding the whole the system may look good on paper, but can have a reverse effect, it could create a ground loop situation, this could cause problems with signal or even audio quality at the far end connections.

 

[rolfw]

If the multi-switch had been grounded then the ground block it's self would not have been needed, but in this case more then likely added for code requirement.

With RF systems that have many connections and cables run to who knows where, you have to be carfull on the ground system, you do not want to create a ground loop in that system, over grounding or bonding the whole the system may look good on paper, but can have a reverse effect, it could create a ground loop situation, this could cause problems with signal or even audio quality at the far end connections.

If the multiswitch has earth bars I'll connect them, but now with dSCR switches I earth the body of the switch only and that is sufficient to conform to code.

 

[yonewuser]

I would assume that this is a subsidiary system, with the head end being on a different floor, the four satellite inputs are DC blocked and the extra two feeds may head off to another floor where they probably pass through an earth bar. It is recommended that each individual powered unit and or splitter feeding apartments is earthed to the main earth terminal, either direct, or via an earthed tray or earth block.

Having said that, you probably dodged a bullet, as I've seen many systems messed up by sky splitting the incoming satellite feeds to feed their dSCR, without thought to the signal to the other apartments. The adapters Sky use for a single Q feed to one or two apartments, take four universal outputs from the switch and pass through two legacy TV/Sat feeds and two dSCR feeds with both Legacy and SCR modes.

Thanks. Sounds like I gotta get on the phone with Sky to see if they can assign someone with experience in dealing with such a setup.

Just thinking if I should just ask them to install a Sky+ connection rather go through this process and risk irking my new neighbors if something goes wrong during the install (if at all it happens).

 

[RustySpoons]

Any one cable connected to the ground will ground the whole system if that cable is run to any multi switch or distribution block with a metal body, metal shielding in the coax will do that for you, that ground strip with all the cables run through it will ground the whole system quite nicely, adding a copper wire to bond the switch to it, then to any ground point would be over kill, but some inspector's and local regulations may be a bit picky.

The 11 cables attached to this ground block I assume (with out a pic of the whole setup) come from somewhere, more then likely the multi-switch, this ground block would be an effective ground for the whole system, but I would have used a heavier gauge ground wire for that many connections.

With all coax going through that ground block, you could remove all but one and the multi-switch would still be grounded. (if that coax goes back to the multi-switch)

If the multi-switch had been grounded then the ground block it's self would not have been needed, but in this case more then likely added for code requirement.

With RF systems that have many connections and cables run to who knows where, you have to be carfull on the ground system, you do not want to create a ground loop in that system, over grounding or bonding the whole the system may look good on paper, but can have a reverse effect, it could create a ground loop situation, this could cause problems with signal or even audio quality at the far end connections.

How do setups like this work if some apartments are on different electrical phases? Not unusual for that to happen.

 

[Channel Hopper]

The neutral of a domestic system is not subject to phases from the generated supply, and so any earthing (direct or additional) should not cause trouble, with the exception of possible residual current within the wiring loom.

 

[RustySpoons]

The neutral of a domestic system is not subject to phases from the generated supply, and so any earthing (direct or additional) should not cause trouble, with the exception of possible residual current within the wiring loom.

Hate to see what happens if a neutral gets disconnected on the incoming supply.

 

[Channel Hopper]

All the lights would go out, lifts would stop, pestilence and locusts would prevail.

 

[Terryl]

The cable, HDTV sets or SAT boxes are isolated from the incoming AC mains service by a transformer in the power supply, this to protect the customer.

Depending on the type of box, most of the time there is only a two prong plug for the AC mains, hot and neutral, no ground, if there were a ground then the RF modules coax connection would be isolated from chassis ground or AC service ground, this to prevent a possible ground loop problem.

 

[RustySpoons]

The cable, HDTV sets or SAT boxes are isolated from the incoming AC mains service by a transformer in the power supply, this to protect the customer.

Depending on the type of box, most of the time there is only a two prong plug for the AC mains, hot and neutral, no ground, if there were a ground then the RF modules coax connection would be isolated from chassis ground or AC service ground, this to prevent a possible ground loop problem.

These days they use a SMPS PSU, with quite a high floating voltage across the chassis for EMC/RFI Filtering.
Across different phases this can be problematic and nasty.
Drop a neutral on the incomer, (most supplies are TN-C-S) And all hell breaks loose.
One reason why LNB's shouldn't be shared with a neighbour in a street, not only if they are on a different phase but earth potentials/faults.