Are we living in a simulation?

[s*t*a*r*m*a*n]

we don't know what it is that we don't know that we dont know what it is that we dont know what is the question that we dont know the answer cause we dont know the queston to ask because we dont know s***

 

[lejizz]

Yeah.. i know...

 

[MickH]

Einstein's alcove? Should this not be beer stein's alcove?

 

[wolsty]

As long as it never becomes Rick Stein's Alcove.................. We don't want it overpriced, overrun by luvvies, yuppies, dinkies, woopies, and hoorays and based in Padstow.

 

[MickH]

As long as it never becomes Rick Stein's Alcove.................. We don't want it overpriced, overrun by luvvies, yuppies, dinkies, woopies, and hoorays and based in Padstow.

Well said Wolsty! There may be a place for those deviants and their stinking effluent ridden seafood in Padstow but not here.

 

[wolsty]

I've no problem with seafood. In fact, I love it. But I do have a problem with paying an arm and a leg for fish, chips and mushy peas in Rick Stein's restaurant. If I remember correctly, it was advertised on the menu at about £15 last time I was in Padstow (NOT in the restaurant, I hasten to add). If you want good fish and chips in Cornwall, you'll find it hard to beat The Sole Plaice on Pydar St, Truro. Less trendy than RS's, but very good value.

 

[spiney]

... "I'm a hungry sole in an empty plaice, waiting for someone to fillet" ....

back to original subject....

It's a question of Ontology, "what really exists". Descartes tried to prove the reality of the external world, starting from "I think therefore I am...". And failed. Berkeley thought matter didn't exist, and that everything is just a thought held in the mind of God (we're "God's dream"!). This is no different, in principle, from saying the world's a perfect computer simulation, it's the same idea expressed in a modern idiom.

Obviously, there's no possible way to prove this idea false (how would you do it?).

"To be is to be perceived". Maybe. But the Anthropic Principle - the idea that the universe is "made real" only by being observed - in my opinion is complete drivel.

I think Occam's Razor applies here, (entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily). What's the point of supposing that the world's "really" a simulation? Saying that gets you exactly nowhere.

 

[Lancelot]

Perhaps we are in a state of Quantum Indeterminancy, and we are in fact
Schrodingers cat.
That way, whoever is 'outside' the box is never destined to know either. O-Ha


L.

 

[Butterbox]

Yeh, I tried to perceive a Ferrari outside my front door. If it ever broke I could bring it to the quantum mechanics.

I always thought it to be very arrogant to say that if we are alone in the universe "what a big waste of space", as if to assume the universe is only there for us (us being living beings), and not that we are just as insignificant as a piece of space dust. Knowledge serves no purpose beyond the life of man.

 

[spiney]

I think quantum indeterminacy is just a red herring (oh no, we’ve gone back to fish again …..).

Let me put it a bit differently. Suppose I’m just a brain in a jar. Or rather, you’re just a brain in a jar, and I’m a huge computer perfectly simulating the outside world (in fact, you’ve no reason at all to believe that any other people exist, although this doesn’t affect what follows). This might be true, certainly there’s no way I can disprove it, as long as it’s not logically or mathematically impossible.

But why stop there? There’s absolutely no reason why this “next level” computer should be the ultimate reality. It might be just be a simulation, running on an even bigger computer. We’ve already taken this step, and there’s no reason not to take it again (now return to the top of this paragraph …….).

I think that’s what the computer chaps (and ladies) call “infinite recursion”, you just keep on going deeper and deeper and deeper …….. (Didn’t Dr Who once have this problem, when his Tardis materialised inside its own control room?).

I believe Rudy Rucker wrote a book about this. At least, if he exists he did, if not then it must have been the computer ……….

 

[spiney]

(Yeah, it’s me yet again, sorry about bad fonts and posts muddles…).

Just noticed “alternative 3” above. I think the tv prog just claimed people were disappearing. The book went further, and said they were being kidnapped by aliens. The reason was given, I think, but can’t remember it.
Surely, the only time extraterrestrial kidnapping has been seriously proposed by a (reputable?!) British tv company.

 

[Channel Hopper]

spiney, surely any brain in a jar with a real conscience would never admit to owning a Pace ?

 

[spiney]

No "go faster" stripes on me! It was cheap from a 2nd hand shop. Also, I have my dish on the kitchen sink. Oh, the shame ....

Maybe my jar's too small, and my brain's getting squeezed .....

 

[s*t*a*r*m*a*n]

The only point i would like to make is that We Are NOT Alone In The Universe as i have experienced the presence of Extra terrestrials on and off for many years where i live. I have seen both there crafts and there pilots. Oh and s.e.t.i is just a big joke, a total waste of money

Anyone ever wonder where up in the universe is?

 

[Channel Hopper]

The only point i would like to make is that We Are NOT Alone In The Universe as i have experienced the presence of Extra terrestrials on and off for many years where i live. I have seen both there crafts and there pilots.

You just know somebody will ask if yove been probed ala Cartman style

 

[s*t*a*r*m*a*n]

You just know somebody will ask if yove been probed ala Cartman style

eh NO ({}) ({})

 

[spiney]

Wait patiently while the probe is withdrawn ("ouch"!), then back to original subject......

I'd like to "progress" this further (as they say!), so let's drop the brains in jars ......

But before doing so, first "scan" the brains, then their entire contents are uploaded into the "world simulating" computer (which might be merely a simulation on yet another even bigger computer, just keep going .....). So, now you and I are subroutines in the "1st level" computer.

OK then, you and me is now tetrabytes! So, what is the "it" that's still conscious? And this giant endless "infinite computer pattern" is made out of ......what?

 

[Channel Hopper]

Have you seen Freejack ?

 

[spiney]

As it happens, yes. But"Freejack" is an extremely bad film version of Sheckley's Immortality Incorporated. Read the original book, it's much better (and extremely chilling)!

 

[Channel Hopper]

Freejack wasnt bad, just somewhat on a Blakes 7 low budget. The actor lineup probably took 90% of the funding