Astra 2F: Central & East Europe Discussion

[uk-expat]

After one day of " back to normality" (with that I intend everything watchable as had quietly been for the last month, apart from the "incident" of two days ago) , tonight all Astra 2 f channels are gone again. Total lack of signal quality here (Northern Italy)..

Reception lost on all 2F channels at 7 p.m. I'm told they degraded from perfect picture to total loss within 2 minutes. Checked again just 10 minutes ago (11.40 p.m.). All channels back again (except for the BBC One HD tests). I can only try to relate this behavior to weather conditions, but I had no problems with bad weather reception up till last week.

 

[gigiPar]

I know what I am going to say my sound strange.

These great variations of signal without apparent explanation got me curious. I starting searching the internet for topics like "satellite signal propagation".
I found an academic paper titled "Satellite COmmunications at Ku, Ja, and V bands: propagation impairments and mitigation techniques" Athanasios D. Panagoulis, Pantelis-Daniel M. Arapoglou, and Panayotis G. Cottis, National Techical University of Athens, 2004.
The research, as the title suggests, explores various tecniques exploited by satellite operators to mitigate loss of signal due to bad weather.

Amongst the various tecniques explained there is one in the paper which is defined "spot beam shaping". At that time (eight years ago), the researchers say, it was in its first steps, and I have no idea wheter it has later found industrial application. Anyway, the tecnique consists of changing the configuration of the set of the transmitting antennas of the satellite, in order to avoid loss of signal power due to weather conditions.
For example, when in the Uk, is very cloudy and rainy, Astra could slightly change the pointing of the antennas that send the signal down to earth, in order to keep the desired signal strenght for the uk spot beam even in very unfavourable atmosferic conditions (and so not disappointing the owners of mini dishes..).
Science fiction or reality? Anyway, it would be interesting to investigate how the weater was in the Uk during the first black out (which lasted almost two days), and the second (wich lasted I thin just a few ours yesterday afternoon).

 

[deepbluesky]

I found an academic paper titled "Satellite COmmunications at Ku, Ja, and V bands: propagation impairments and mitigation techniques" Athanasios D. Panagoulis, Pantelis-Daniel M. Arapoglou, and Panayotis G. Cottis, National Techical University of Athens, 2004.

Would you be so kind to post the link to this article ?

 

[Lazarus]

Whilst surface weather does have an effect, I suspect you might find that most of the variation occurs in and through the various layers above the atmosphere, especially the troposphere and ionosphere.

eg Look up things like Scintillation (There are many other factors, but as you like research, consider it a "Starter for Ten"!)

Here's a decent overview to be going on with:

hxxp://www.radio-electronics.com/info/satellite/satellite_sig_prop/satellite_signal_propagation.php


PS: Don't forget we are near the peak of the current Sunspot cycle, too.

 

[gigiPar]

Would you be so kind to post the link to this article ?

Aftre numeros attempts, I must concoude I am not ale to post the link...

Anyway, if you type in Google search:

propagation impairments and mitigation techniques

the firs result shoul be:

[PDF]

satellite communications at ku, ka, and v bands - ResearchGate
(from the website researchgate.net)

If youclick it, you should be able to open the pdf of the academic paper.

anyway, this is the string of google search (google.it) leading to the paper:

https://www.google.it/search?q=+propagation+impaiments+and+mitigation+techniques&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:itfficial&client=firefox-a#hl=it&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=serp&pq=%20propagation%20impaiments%20and%20mitigation%20techniques&cp=18&gs_id=36&xhr=t&q=propagation+impairments+and+mitigation+techniques&pf=p&client=firefox-a&hs=tJ0&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:it%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&oq=propagation+impairments+and+mitigation+techniques&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1357700187,d.Yms&fp=aa677d014cd8b4e6&biw=1280&bih=658

 

[deepbluesky]

Thanks a lot to both of you.

gigPar, got the pdf very easily.

 

[Alistair_]

Reception lost on all 2F channels at 7 p.m. I'm told they degraded from perfect picture to total loss within 2 minutes. Checked again just 10 minutes ago (11.40 p.m.). All channels back again (except for the BBC One HD tests). I can only try to relate this behavior to weather conditions, but I had no problems with bad weather reception up till last week.

It would seem that while now the UK is equally covered, we are living off of 'spillage signal' and are affected by 'rain in space'... There, there's a couple of terms you didn't expect to read today did you? link removed

Please dont post links to THAT particular website on the forum.

Thank you, admin

 

[Alistair_]

Roger. Sorry about that, didn't know, was careful not to copy and paste to avoid potential copyright issues or whatever but didn't think about the link, won't happen again.

I noticed that 2F channels come back late at night and are still there in the morning and until early afternoon, unfortunately they disappear when it matters the most, evenings and nights. Everyone else getting the same pattern in the last few days?

 

[Satellite74]

I noticed that 2F channels come back late at night and are still there in the morning and until early afternoon, unfortunately they disappear when it matters the most, evenings and nights. Everyone else getting the same pattern in the last few days?

It's pretty much always like that here. Decent reception throughout the morning (about 7-9 am), noon, and early afternoon, then the signal deteriorates quickly towards late afternoon, no more lock from about 6-7pm, and then it sometimes comes back at 11pm, sometimes not until about 1 or 2 am.

Prime Time is effectively ruined. Why can't they just let the satellite wobble the other way round, no signal from 2am till mid-morning and then halfway decent reception all day? :-crying

Just a question, I've already asked this on forum.digitalfernsehen.de and so far no reply:

4seven seems to be the strongest transponder on 2F here in my region, while the Channel 5 transponder is the worst and BBC HD barely comes in at all. So apparently the lower the TP frequency, the worse the reception. Now considering that 4seven is at the top of the frequency range of Freesat transponders and even the Channel 5 transponder is pretty high up there, would that mean that come the new satellites, it could get even worse for the remaining transponders? I'm not talking crystal ball predictions here, but who here could really give an educated guess as to what might happen?

 

[PaulR]

4Seven and C4HD are vertically polarised - others are all horizontal. Could this be a factor perhaps? Also the BBC 1 HDs are 8PSK whilst all others are QPSK so this could be a further reason in the difficulty stakes.

 

[uk-expat]

It's pretty much always like that here. Decent reception throughout the morning (about 7-9 am), noon, and early afternoon, then the signal deteriorates quickly towards late afternoon, no more lock from about 6-7pm, and then it sometimes comes back at 11pm, sometimes not until about 1 or 2 am.

Prime Time is effectively ruined. Why can't they just let the satellite wobble the other way round, no signal from 2am till mid-morning and then halfway decent reception all day? :-crying

Just a question, I've already asked this on forum.digitalfernsehen.de and so far no reply:

4seven seems to be the strongest transponder on 2F here in my region, while the Channel 5 transponder is the worst and BBC HD barely comes in at all. So apparently the lower the TP frequency, the worse the reception. Now considering that 4seven is at the top of the frequency range of Freesat transponders and even the Channel 5 transponder is pretty high up there, would that mean that come the new satellites, it could get even worse for the remaining transponders? I'm not talking crystal ball predictions here, but who here could really give an educated guess as to what might happen?

After all the aggravation I had with reception last week - especially around this time in the evening - quality reception returned this weekend. I've just re-checked: all 2F channels coming in loud & clear. I note that one of the BBC 1 HDs has changed its channel name today to BBC 1 Scot HD.

 

[davidcmadrid]

After all the aggravation I had with reception last week - especially around this time in the evening - quality reception returned this weekend. I've just re-checked: all 2F channels coming in loud & clear. I note that one of the BBC 1 HDs has changed its channel name today to BBC 1 Scot HD.

Hi Uk- Expat,

Just to confirm your experience is that whereas previously you consistantly lost 2F reception for the afternoon and evening this is now no longer the case with consistant 24 hour reception ? Do you think you have much margin ? Im unclear for you long you had lost reception in afternoon / evening was it just the last week or since testing on 11023h began.

 

[solly]

new signal 11210v ?

 

[uk-expat]

Hi Uk- Expat,

Just to confirm your experience is that whereas previously you consistantly lost 2F reception for the afternoon and evening this is now no longer the case with consistant 24 hour reception ? Do you think you have much margin ? Im unclear for you long you had lost reception in afternoon / evening was it just the last week or since testing on 11023h began.

This is my reception history
- Sporadic reception of the BBC 1 HDs when 11023H first switched on digital; windows of reception improved gradually after that
- Fault-free reception on all channels from the day the Fives/Ch4HD/4Seven switched to 2F; also no problems with the BBC 1 HDs; unaffected by rain/snow
- Problems started just over a week ago: daylight reception fine; total loss after 7 p.m., sometimes resuming at approx midnight. Explanations I gathered from this list ranged from atmospherics/sunspot activity to Astra tweaking the lobes/footprint to optimize for UK. All sound credible.
- As of last Saturday, back to perfect reception day & night including the HD channels
- Re-checked 5 minutes ago: still no problems. E.g. 11023H showing 90% signal strength. Hope it stays that way!

 

[gigiPar]

After all the aggravation I had with reception last week - especially around this time in the evening - quality reception returned this weekend. I've just re-checked: all 2F channels coming in loud & clear. I note that one of the BBC 1 HDs has changed its channel name today to BBC 1 Scot HD.

This erratic pattern has been going on quite for a while. Days like today characterized by gorgeous reception 24/7 (even if now here it's rainy and cloudy and my dish is only 1oo cm), many days of great signal morning through afternoon, then rapid decay in the evening,, followed by decent reception coming back late at night, and some frustrating days of no signal at all, be it day or night.

 

[Satellite74]

well if this is how it's going to be with 2F permanently, a few weeks of somewhat good reception and then a few days of not so great signal up to total signal loss, and then back to normal, then that's something I think most of us can live with. There are other things to life besides UK telly, as hard to believe as that sometimes is

 

[Alistair_]

There are other things to life besides UK telly

On occasions, that's debatable. Spending evenings with no channels at all is something I'm not looking forward to.

 

[Luxlizard]

I agree,but I am 65,after a healthy life (vegetarian,no smoke,no drugs,no booze,a lot of sport) since 2007 I had my life suddenly ruined by a series of diseases, and I can't do the majority of things I used to do...Watch tv now is essential for me...I subscribed to Sky.it,but my favourite is UK telly,and I am ready to pay for it...In the past ,before freesat,I had Bsky TV for many years,,it was expensive,because I had to pay a lot who supplied the decoder and the card...but I don't know if it will be possible in the future to do it again,If even the Bsky will change footprint ...

 

[Alistair_]

Pattern seems to have changed yet again, if there ever was one that is, now is more like one day YES the other NO, what a headache, could anyone live with this kind of volatility/unreliability? I know I couldn't...

 

[manosfk]

No reception here in east CRETE with 1,40 m