Astra 2F: Western Europe Discussion

[Steve Steve]

By the way Steve, thanks for pushing me into checking the skew - I just hope it makes a big difference.
Now if you ever think of replacing your Sky box(es) with a linux receiver, perhaps I can repay the assistance.

No prob "Tony".....If the Skew..and everything else is not ultra perfect....you will loss signal quality........I found the best time for adjustment was in the evening .....when i was just about to lose 2F channels..and ultra fine adjustment of everything....got things back. to max possible signal...........

 

[strs65]

The Gibertini feedhorn is for both 125 and 150 Gibertini dishes.

Ok thanks! How does this feedhorn with a C120 LNB compare with a regular (standard offset) LNB, for example the Inverto Black Ultra? Have you made any test?

 

[Steve Steve]

Ok thanks! How does this feedhorn with a C120 LNB compare with a regular (standard offset) LNB, for example the Inverto Black Ultra? Have you made any test?

The black ultra is a very good.LNB...But a "Opticum x2,x4,x8 output.... out performs a black ultra ....on dishes up-to 120cm.........The Feedhorn LNB gave me a 10-15% better signal Q on my 150 gibby ......compared to Opticum & Invacom..LNBs

 

[strs65]

That's very interesting!

You are using the Invacom Quatro, of your signature I guess...

 

[Steve Steve]

Yes ...Invacom.Quatro...with a Raven Feedhorn...........But i would stick with what you have.....a feedhorn will not work so good an a 110cm dish......

 

[strs65]

No, I'm not asking for my 1.10m, I also have a 1.25 Gibertini (just added in my signature).

 

[Steve Steve]

"Tony " is testing a Gibby Feed horn ..on A Gibby 125......we will have to wait for his results........

 

[cazhh]

No, I'm not asking for my 1.10m, I also have a 1.25 Gibertini (just added in my signature).

Before i had my 150 gib i had a 125 gib for some weeks. When testing i found that the feedhorn on that smaller dish only gave some advantages when the dish wasn't adjusted 100%. Once i had that done there was almost no difference to a black ultra quad. I didn't have that dish long enough to verify that though.
On a 150 a feedhorn is a must. The Invacom Quad with a Gib feedhorn will outperform any other LNB (I've tested the ibuq and the opticum quad). I get about 0.5 db more on the 1N transponders and almost 1db more on the very weak 2F ones.
Performance of the LNBs though might be dependant on your receiption. Here near the Beams first null 1N transponders are really strong compared with the weaker 2F ones. I think that some LNBs cope with that situation better than others.
So in the end your results might look completely different.

 

[strs65]

Hi....... strs 65...........all LNBs have a feed horn...The usual 40mm ones have a feedhorn built in behind the plastic cap on the front of the LNB..........The feedhorns we are talking about are C120 Flange Feedhorns....Usually used on bigger dishes..120cm..And upwards.........The ones I know are made by Raven/Andrews , Gibertini, And Invacom.......The Gibby Feedhorn is best to get if you have a Gibby Dish.......As the Raven Feedhorn is great ...but needs mods ..to make it fit on a Gibby dish...!!........Also A C120 flange LNB is also needed with a C120 flange Feedhorn...Invacom & Inverto do these types of LNBs

Well, I just now saw your answer (lost it between so many others)!

I actually know what a feedhorn is, and what is it for. I was just asking for this specific feedhorn for the Gibertini, that I was unaware of. Thanks anyway for your reply!

 

[strs65]

Before i had my 150 gib i had a 125 gib for some weeks. When testing i found that the feedhorn on that smaller dish only gave some advantages when the dish wasn't adjusted 100%. Once i had that done there was almost no difference to a black ultra quad. I didn't have that dish long enough to verify that though.
On a 150 a feedhorn is a must. The Invacom Quad with a Gib feedhorn will outperform any other LNB (I've tested the ibuq and the opticum quad). I get about 0.5 db more on the 1N transponders and almost 1db more on the very weak 2F ones.
Performance of the LNBs though might be dependant on your receiption. Here near the Beams first null 1N transponders are really strong compared with the weaker 2F ones. I think that some LNBs cope with that situation better than others.
So in the end your results might look completely different.

Thanks cazhh, your reply was very informative! I think I have to try it in the end (now that I am aware of it, I cannot resist the temptation to test it! )

 

[Steve Steve]

Before i had my 150 gib i had a 125 gib for some weeks. When testing i found that the feedhorn on that smaller dish only gave some advantages when the dish wasn't adjusted 100%. Once i had that done there was almost no difference to a black ultra quad. I didn't have that dish long enough to verify that though.
On a 150 a feedhorn is a must. The Invacom Quad with a Gib feedhorn will outperform any other LNB (I've tested the ibuq and the opticum quad). I get about 0.5 db more on the 1N transponders and almost 1db more on the very weak 2F ones.
Performance of the LNBs though might be dependant on your receiption. Here near the Beams first null 1N transponders are really strong compared with the weaker 2F ones. I think that some LNBs cope with that situation better than others.
So in the end your results might look completely different.

Cheers...Caz.....you enplane things soooo much better than me....I think i'll stick to weather reports on "Robs"....°Tho can't get that to work...since the new site was launched..!

 

[cazhh]

I'd like to share with you the data i've collected over the past few months. I use a dreambox dm500hd to measure the SNR of 10964 and a PE beam transponder every minute. I collect the data and create plots from it. Today has been a very special day. I have seen the highest SNR value measured so far.



Just this week:

]

You can see how much the SNR varies during the day.

And for the PE Beam:



As you can see there is some variation over time as well.

 

[Steve Steve]

Signal very high today....100%Q.....and still at 80% heading into the evening........Infact...... probably very close to January signal Q.....Hope it continues .....fingers crossed...!!

 

[Gary D]

Signal very high today....100%Q.....and still at 80% heading into the evening........Infact...... probably very close to January signal Q.....Hope it continues .....fingers crossed...!!

...and there was I thinking that my new 1m dish that I put up on Saturday had made a vast improvement to reception!

It's difficult to know what the improvement is, but if the signals stay high maybe it won't matter.

Anyway, at my location 40km east of Toulouse, 4seven is my weakest 2f channel and the best quality I could get with the old 70cm dish was 60% as indicated by the Sky box, with loss of picture occurring around the 30% mark. Last night my 1m dish gave a low point of 70%, and 90% during the day.

I don't think I'll have to wait very long to see how it performs in rainy conditions...

 

[Steve Steve]

Hi Garry .....A 1 metre dish upgrade is bound to give you an improvement on a 70cm ...together with your "Opticum quad " LNB....you should get great results..!!......I hope you let us know how you get on..........

PS...Highest ever Ch5.4HD signal today/evening...Here......I'm not sure whats changed.....But I ain't complaining.....:-)

 

[TonyWhalley]

So, talked to the satellite guys, who thought that adjusting the skew would have minimal effect... boy were they surprised!
I have to say that on their meter, they could see a big jump, on my receiver's, there was little immediate difference........ but as the night drew in you could see that the signal remained stable longer.
CH4HD died at about 9.30 and CH5SD stayed alive until after 10.00, but then the high winds came in and the picture started really jumping.

So better? Yes. The answer? Not sure.
If I can get to 10 - 11 each night I will be OK, but we have heavy rain today and signals are down, but rising again as I write!

So next trick..... try my new, very expensive Kathrein multiswitch later today probably.

I certainly think the new Invacom and especially the feedhorn are necessary for 2F UK beam due to the weaker signals.
I also believe that you need a professional meter to squeeze the last drop out of the system..... having seen the lack of change on both my Sky HD box and main linux Enigma 2 receiver as they changed the skew, it is necessary.

So hopefully tonight my 1.25M dish will deliver on at least SD to 11.00 p.m. ............ always the optimist!!! Roll on the next time change then I would feel comfortable I could make the time target!..................... who needs Winter time!


..... and Steve, if I had a head for heights and easy access to the dish (but unfortunately its on the roof apex.) I would also try playing with the LNB supports....... the Invacom LNB is a real heavy beast and although judging by the pics the 125 supports look stronger than the 150 dish, it would be worth trying

 

[Steve Steve]

If you connect your sky box directly to the ...horizontal low...output of your LNb ..and tune to ch5....,you can see how much through loss the multiswitch is causing.....

 

[mickwig]

So, talked to the satellite guys, who thought that adjusting the skew would have minimal effect... boy were they surprised!
I have to say that on their meter, they could see a big jump, on my receiver's, there was little immediate difference........ but as the night drew in you could see that the signal remained stable longer.
CH4HD died at about 9.30 and CH5SD stayed alive until after 10.00, but then the high winds came in and the picture started really jumping.

So better? Yes. The answer? Not sure.
If I can get to 10 - 11 each night I will be OK, but we have heavy rain today and signals are down, but rising again as I write!

So next trick..... try my new, very expensive Kathrein multiswitch later today probably.

I certainly think the new Invacom and especially the feedhorn are necessary for 2F UK beam due to the weaker signals.
I also believe that you need a professional meter to squeeze the last drop out of the system..... having seen the lack of change on both my Sky HD box and main linux Enigma 2 receiver as they changed the skew, it is necessary.

So hopefully tonight my 1.25M dish will deliver on at least SD to 11.00 p.m. ............ always the optimist!!! Roll on the next time change then I would feel comfortable I could make the time target!..................... who needs Winter time!


..... and Steve, if I had a head for heights and easy access to the dish (but unfortunately its on the roof apex.) I would also try playing with the LNB supports....... the Invacom LNB is a real heavy beast and although judging by the pics the 125 supports look stronger than the 150 dish, it would be worth trying

Hi Tony, without wanting to dampen your enthusiasm I must tell you, that the sudden spike in signal might only be partly due to your new equipment/skew settings. I live about 100 km due north (A9) of you and I have benn chasing the UK spot beam since May with more or less success. Meaning, I had a 180 cm installed in May since my 120 Kathrein PF would pick up 2F UKspot only very badly. From May to August I tested and it wasn't enough to actually have a stable signla to watch TV (the wife!!).

Since then I upgraded to 240 cm and the gain of signal strength was about 30%. However - about 2 weeks ago suddenly CH4 HD was the strongest TP whereas before it was the weakest and since about 3 to 4 days ALL channels are incredibly strong. I had about 55% SQ at the maximum and down to 10-15% at the minimum. Now we are up to 70% max and 30% min. I hope it will last, but I somehow doubt it. Something has changed either in preparation for 2E to arrive or maybe the signal was boosted because of oncoming bad wheather in the UK in order to keep little dishes working despite the thick clound. I don't know.

Regards - Mick

 

[cazhh]

this is what happened the last few days:



Also at the same time someone at the western border of the sidelobe reported a weaker signal. To me this looks like a beam move.

 

[timo_w2s]

Didn't 2D use to do a bit of a shift in the autumn/spring too?