BBC reception help in Stockholm, Sweden

[Dopamine]

I just got a 125cm Offset dish with a Twin Invacom LNB.

I quckly got it up and tuned to the BBC channels (10773 H),
and the picture seemed fine.

Though the signal was low (Skystar2 = 26%, Nokia 9902s = 6.2db)
the picture was fine until the early evening, whereupon
the signal dipped to about 5.5db, which is right around the treshold
of pixelation it seems.

The skystar2 fares better, likely due to shorter cable and no diseq-switch,
but it still gets either useless for recording (it´s main purpose),
or watching, ranging from pixelation every 20min to a couple of times a minute.

I´ve tried adjusting the elevation, azimuth and lnb skew,
with no results.
Even a few milimeters in either directions kicks the signal off completely,
a bit lesser so with the lnb skew.

I cant help but to think that this seems odd. Im trying to see if a big tree nearby does any damage, but it seems the dish has somewhat of a clear path.

Anyhow, is there anything I can do to get that extra inch of signal?

I´ve read a lot on this forum, astra2d.co.uk, and there seem to be plenty of people recommending the MTI Blueline AP8 T2.
My problem with this lnb is that Im unsure if Im getting the exact right model,
since there seem to be a couple of them.

Could someone verify that it´s the MTI Blueline listed on this shop?
http://www.satpro.se/default.asp?id=10401,
this to be exact: http://www.satpro.se/detailes/detailes.asp?art_nr=2394

I realize that gain won´t come in vast amounts from a better LNB,
but it´s only like 250SEK(£18) to get it shipped home to me,
so it wouldn´t be much of a loss.

But would it conceivably give me enough edge to get just enough signal
to have a perfect pic 24/7?

Any help would be appreciated.

Peace,
/Per

 

[Satslut]

You are on the fringe area for reception, the signal drops about the time you said and apart from a bigger dish there is nothing you can do. I was using a 1.4 dish with an Interstar 0.3 LNB and I had the same problem. We tried a larger dish (1.8) and it cured all.

 

[steffan_st]

If you should try another LNB maybe you should buy the MTI AP-8 t2n (the n is very important),it's the new 0.3 version of the old famous AP-8 t2 that used to be so good for the low frequencies at 2d.

From a rather reliable souce I got the information that it performed better than the Sharp dot 4,and that's not bad.

I doubt a new LNB would solve your problems,maybe you should try a receiver with a more sensitive tuner.I'm in the south east of Sweden where the signal is weaker than in your area,I use a Humax 8100 with a good result.

Sounds very strange that you shouldn't get a good result with a 125 cm offset.What make and model of dish are you using?

 

[steffan_st]

You are on the fringe area for reception, the signal drops about the time you said and apart from a bigger dish there is nothing you can do. I was using a 1.4 dish with an Interstar 0.03 LNB and I had the same problem. We tried a larger dish (1.8) and it cured all.

Hey Satslut!

Where can I buy the 0.03 LNB?!?

 

[Dopamine]

My dish is a neptunsat branded one from http://www.neptunsat.com/se/.
I supose I might´ve gotten what I paid for.. But I got nothing with a 90cm Toroidal,
so I wasn´t sure that I would even get any signal.

Where can I get that lnb?(MTI AP-8 t2n)

I wouldnt wanna get a better dish of the same size (like a Gibertini),
so Id have to go with a 1.5m Gibertini, which costs 3800 SEK.
(my dish costs 1000 SEK)
And in that case, Im not sure I could even mount it on the wall,
which is somewhat of a requirement since my lawn is surrounded by small trees
and bushes.

Anyone have one that could tell me?
I only found this, and he got it mounted on the ground:
http://www.component.se/members/?user=marcus

Peace,
/Per

 

[Satslut]

Hey Satslut!

Where can I buy the 0.03 LNB?!?

I CERTAINLY PUT MY FOOT IN MY MOUTH THIS TIME

 

[steffan_st]

My dish is a neptunsat branded one from http://www.neptunsat.com/se/.
I supose I might´ve gotten what I paid for.. But I got nothing with a 90cm Toroidal,
so I wasn´t sure that I would even get any signal.

Where can I get that lnb?(MTI AP-8 t2n)

I wouldnt wanna get a better dish of the same size (like a Gibertini),
so Id have to go with a 1.5m Gibertini, which costs 3800 SEK.
(my dish costs 1000 SEK)
And in that case, Im not sure I could even mount it on the wall,
which is somewhat of a requirement since my lawn is surrounded by small trees
and bushes.

Anyone have one that could tell me?
I only found this, and he got it mounted on the ground:
http://www.component.se/members/?user=marcus

Peace,
/Per

Well I wouldn't be surprised if your dish is a Polish "Mabo",they have a very bad reputation,read in another forum that one guy got a better result with a 150 cm quality dish than with a 185 cm Mabo.


No surprise you aren't getting any results with a Toroidal,that dish is a compromise.


Don't know where you can get the LNB,search the net.


You shouldn't need a 150 cm,I use a 100 cm Gibertini!


There is a guy from the Stockholm area called Likvid in this forum,he uses a 90 cm Fibo,he will see your post soon, and maybe he can help you.

 

[steffan_st]

Check out the similarity of your dish and the Mabo 185 cm.

http://mabo.pl/eng/antennae/185os.html

 

[Likvid]

I live in Stockholm and i haven't had any problems with BBC on a Fibostöp 90cm gregorian dish.

Aligning the subreflector and feedhorn made some improvements, you need instrument for this though....

Please note that i am using the single C120 Invacom LNB.

I did get some pixelation during rain but that's about it.

Must be an alignment isssue in your case or a warped dish that is not performing like it should, i have a friend who receives it with his SMW 105 cm dish as well in the same area.

 

[steffan_st]

Aligning the subreflector and feedhorn made some improvements

How many % increase on your receivers signal-quality meter did you obtain with this alignment ?

 

[Dopamine]

steffan_st:
doesn´t look like the exact same dish, but as I said I supose it might be somewhat crappy.

Likvid:
I cant say either way.. If it´s an alignment issue, I dont know what to change.
I could try re-mounting it higher, or in a different manner.
It´s currently attatched to a ~1m pole sticking out from my wall.
Now that I think about it, that pole might be bent slightly, compromising a perfectly
straight configuration.
Though I never had such a problem, I assume a deviation from the straight
surface might affect the alignment.. I need to check that.

I wouldn´t think that it´s warped, because I have no problem with other sattelites,
including the other astra 2´s. Also it dosn´t look particulary warped to me.

I will try to get this dish working (well it does work, just not perfectly),
but if I cant.. would a 125cm Gibertini be a safe bet to make it better?

Given that my dish is unlikely to be a top-performer, would it be likely
that a 125cm Gibertini could solve my problems?

I don´t give much credence to retailers proclaiming "30% stronger signal compared to a regular dish", but if it´s any truth to that, it could be enough.. perhaps?

It´s really annoying, because it´s working, though just barely, at times during daytime.

Hope I can get it sorted somehow

Peace,
/Per

 

[Likvid]

How many % increase on your receivers signal-quality meter did you obtain with this alignment ?

About 0.3dB C/N increase, enough to make BBC almost pixelfree when it rains.

It's a great antenna no doubt.

 

[steffan_st]

About 0.3dB C/N increase, enough to make BBC almost pixelfree when it rains.

It's a great antenna no doubt.

That was a rather good result.

 

[Dopamine]

There are no specs for the 125cm, but the 110cm says this:
(http://www.neptunsat.com/se/100LH.htm)

Gain (11,5Ghz)​

40,8dB​

Gain (12,75Ghz)​

41,68dB​

Comparing that to the Mabo dishes, same size,
with specs that say: (http://mabo.pl/eng/antennae/110os.html)

Yield 11,75 GHz (d ... 41,70
Yield 12,50 GHz (d ... 42,30
Yield 12,75 GHz (d ... 43,00

Now, I assume yield and gain are the same thing in this context..
In that case, the Neptunsat dish would have a slightly lower gain than the Mabo dish.

On the other hand, a Gibertini 120cm has has a gain of 41,3dB on 10,95 GHz,
a bit under the 125cm Mabo with Yield 10,95 GHz (d ... 42,00.

And with yet another comparsion,
we see that the Gibertini 150cm has a gain of 43,3dB on 10,95 GHz,
which is just shy of the 43,9dB that the Mabo 185cm had!

A last comparsion at 100cm (all 3 of them)
shows that Neptunsat had

Gain (11,5Ghz)​

39,5dB​

Mabo had Yield 11,75 GHz (d ... 40,40dB

And the gibertini had 39,4dB, but at 10,95Ghz instead.

Again, it seems that the neptunsat is worst, followed by the mabo and the Gibertini.

While the numbers seems fishy in regards to the Mabo beating the Gibertini except on 150cm Gib vs 185cm Mab, it does seem like the Neptunsat is behind both of them,
all the time.

I dont know what to think of these numbers.. or what actual relevance they have..
but the Neptunsat dish seems quite crappy.
Especially if the Mabo is to be taken as a poor dish to begin with.

Oh well.. I´ll see what I can do with it tomorrow..
Otherwise I´ll figure out if a 125cm Gibertini would be a good idea.

Peace,
/Per

 

[steffan_st]

Likvid,your PM-box is full!

 

[Likvid]

Please PM me again.

 

[Likvid]

According to different specs my Fibo 90cm is speced for 40.9dB at 11.7 GHz which means it should perform like your 110cm.

I am thinking of ordering the SMW X-Line LNB with LO +-1MHz to see if i can gain some more and buy this Polarizer http://www.reisat.ch/katalogpdf/bpolarizer1.pdf

There are no specs for the 125cm, but the 110cm says this:
(http://www.neptunsat.com/se/100LH.htm)

Gain (11,5Ghz)​

40,8dB​

Gain (12,75Ghz)​

41,68dB​

Comparing that to the Mabo dishes, same size,
with specs that say: (http://mabo.pl/eng/antennae/110os.html)

Yield 11,75 GHz (d ... 41,70
Yield 12,50 GHz (d ... 42,30
Yield 12,75 GHz (d ... 43,00

Now, I assume yield and gain are the same thing in this context..
In that case, the Neptunsat dish would have a slightly lower gain than the Mabo dish.

On the other hand, a Gibertini 120cm has has a gain of 41,3dB on 10,95 GHz,
a bit under the 125cm Mabo with Yield 10,95 GHz (d ... 42,00.

And with yet another comparsion,
we see that the Gibertini 150cm has a gain of 43,3dB on 10,95 GHz,
which is just shy of the 43,9dB that the Mabo 185cm had!

A last comparsion at 100cm (all 3 of them)
shows that Neptunsat had

Gain (11,5Ghz)​

39,5dB​

Mabo had Yield 11,75 GHz (d ... 40,40dB

And the gibertini had 39,4dB, but at 10,95Ghz instead.

Again, it seems that the neptunsat is worst, followed by the mabo and the Gibertini.

While the numbers seems fishy in regards to the Mabo beating the Gibertini except on 150cm Gib vs 185cm Mab, it does seem like the Neptunsat is behind both of them,
all the time.

I dont know what to think of these numbers.. or what actual relevance they have..
but the Neptunsat dish seems quite crappy.
Especially if the Mabo is to be taken as a poor dish to begin with.

Oh well.. I´ll see what I can do with it tomorrow..
Otherwise I´ll figure out if a 125cm Gibertini would be a good idea.

Peace,
/Per

 

[Dopamine]

I measured the vertical value of the pole, and it was pretty bad..
def. need to straighten it up. So the 1m long pole I use now is pretty
much a lost cause as it seems now.

So, what would be the best wallmount to use?
I´ve been looking at a few of those over at
http://www.satpro.se/default.asp?id=10601

These are some of those who look ok:

http://www.satpro.se/detailes/detailes.asp?art_nr=2681
http://www.satpro.se/detailes/detailes.asp?art_nr=2385
http://www.satpro.se/detailes/detailes.asp?art_nr=1589

Im not 100% sure how much I need them to reach out from the wall,
but it´s probably good if it´s 30-40cm.. on the other hand,
it needs to bare the weight of my dish, which my 1m doesn´t do right
now.. so too long is probably not good either.

Peace,
/Per

 

[Dopamine]

Im back again.. I bought a very sturdy wall-mount,
and got the dish another 1-2m higher up on the wall.

Im testing the new setup with the following components:
Quad invacom (instead of twin)
3m cable
Nokia 9902s

The time is now 16:08, and the signal level is as follows: (+/- 0.2d
BBC 1 London: 7.3 dB S/N
BBC 1 NI: 7.3 dB S/N
BBC 1 Scotland: 6.3 dB S/N
BBC 1 Wales: 6.3 dB S/N

BBC 2 England: 7.3 dB S/N
BBC 2 NI: 6.3 dB S/N
BBC 2 Scotland: 6.3 dB S/N
BBC 2 Wales: 6.3 dB S/N

BBC 3: 6.1-7.3 dB S/N (this seems to be due to it not broadcasting yet)
BBC 4: 6.1-7.3 dB S/N (this seems to be due to it not broadcasting yet)
BBC News 24: 6.1 dB S/N
CBBC: 7.3 dB S/N
CBeebies: 6.3 dB S/N

The 7.x values seems to come inconsistently,
especially as I go through the channels rapidly.
It´s the same channels who have those values, though.
(Although BBC News 24 only had it once)
I dont know if it´s wind or some other factor that affects this.
Anyhow, they all keep over 6.

Having the nokia back downstairs,
with an additional 10m cable and a diseq-switch,
seems to only cut say 0.1 dB S/N off the reception.

In both cases, as of now, 17:00 PM,
the picture is perfect; no pixelation or distortion of any kind.

Im pretty sure I´ve got all the settings perfect;
they were all tuned in by hand, and they do upon reflection
seem to correspond almost exactly to the calculated
values on http://satlex.de/en/azel_calc.html.
Furthermore, any deviation from the current setting
does only harm to the signal.

I really don´t know if there´s anything more I can do to boost the signal.

To my experience, the nokia can give a perfect pic out of 5.6 dB S/N or thereabout;
while I haven´t tested this exact setup before,
I expect the reception to drop in quality as the night comes closer.

Hopefully there will be enough signal left to get a 24/7 pic,
but I can´t say Im convinced that it will happend.

I´ll post more when I know for sure how the signal worked out later tonight;
but at any rate, I´d appriciate any pointers if there are such to be given.

I did only pay £65 for the dish, so it´s not like I blew away the family fortune..
but I still hesitate to blow another £275 for a Gibertini 150, although
Im sure that would boost the signal enough to keep me out of worry.

Peace,
/Per

 

[Jambo_Habari]

Hello All,

Just for your info only.
Myself also live in Stockholm, have a 140 cm dish, with a Invacom uni single nf 0.3 db lnb, including motor, and have no problelms soever with recepition.

Cheers,
Jambo