Dish will not turn west, help please

[greencajun]

Some how water has got into the internals of the motor and affected the West button, or the circutry for the West button,(leaked in through those twist on connectors maybe??) looks like you may be needing a new motor in my opinion.

All signs point to a bad motor, except for the fact that this motor does turn to the west with the Go to Reference command, which seems inexplicable, unless there are parallel circuits.

I can get this motor for just 30 euros, very good price if this is a decent motor, anyone know of it?

Account Suspended

 

[TJExcalibur]

At 30 euros and made in China I would buy several as a replacement every year. TM 2600 mk 3 is much better.

 

[greencajun]

At 30 euros and made in China I would buy several as a replacement every year. TM 2600 mk 3 is much better.

I see your point, 30 euros seems really cheap. Aren't the TM motors also made in China or Taiwan?

 

[Channel Hopper]

I see your point, 30 euros seems really cheap. Aren't the TM motors also made in China or Taiwan?

If not constructed in the Far East , parts inside all H to H motors for the smaller dish systems will have originated from China, Taiwan or similar.

The best way to check is by the PCB numbers, internal stickers dealing with quality control, then looking at the materials that the casings are made out of.

 

[greencajun]

I bought a new motor, installed and aligned it, it worked perfectly for about 30 minutes, then the exact same problem recurred: the motor will not turn west, except with the Go to Reference command. See my new thread at Usals 20 degrees off on every sat - SatsUK.

Any thoughts?

 

[a33]

Well, with the other (old) motor down, and without a dish: does that motor still have the problem of not rotating west?
Tested both at the end of the cable, and directly at the receiver?

I'm asking because I once had an issue with some motor commands working, and others not working (irregularly over time).
Seemed to be a receiver-cable interaction in the end: with a shorter cable, or another receiver, all worked well again. (So I assumed too much resistance (no copper), and/or too low voltage... but never tested it further.)

Greetz,
A33

 

[greencajun]

Well, with the other (old) motor down, and without a dish: does that motor still have the problem of not rotating west?
Tested both at the end of the cable, and directly at the receiver?

Yes, with the old motor connected directly to the receiver inside the house, the motor does not turn west, except with the Go to Reference command.

 

[a33]

Strange thing.
I've no other "thoughts" than you have. Test with other receiver. Opening up the motors, to measure things inside.

Cannot remember ever reading about this fault and cause of it....

Greetz,
A33

 

[greencajun]

Strange thing.
I've no other "thoughts" than you have. Test with other receiver. Opening up the motors, to measure things inside.

Yes, I think another receiver is the only way to get to the bottom of this. The manual says this motor has "current limit protection," not sure what this means but hopefully it means there is some kind of fuse that protected the motor if, as I fear, too much current was sent up.

Wish I had a schematic or a voltage test point chart, I don't really understand how one coax cable can supply the power for everything.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Try a different firmware version.


From another site

Guide to RS232 flash or Recover Ferguson Ariva

As the title, just translated to English. Firmware can be found here http://www.world-of-satellite.com/forumdisplay.php?357-All-files-for-Ferguson-Ariva-102E-HD Recovery software for Ariva 102E here...

www.world-of-satellite.com

From there you should be able to tell if yours has factory or later version.

Support for these boxes stopped years ago.

 

[greencajun]

Strange thing.
I've no other "thoughts" than you have. Test with other receiver. Opening up the motors, to measure things inside.

The sad news is that today I borrowed a receiver and the result was exactly the same, the motor still would not turn west, except with the Go to Reference command. This suggests that some sort of current spike from the receiver destroyed 2 motors, my original one and the brand new one I put up yesterday. The new motor was definitely working properly when we installed it, but the problem occurred after 30 minutes of use. This probably means I'll need another new motor and a new receiver. As Channel Hopper suggested, It's possible I could fix the problem with the receiver by installing new firmware, but even with fresh firmware I don't think I could trust this receiver with another brand new motor.

The manual for the motor states cryptically that the motor has "current limit protection," with no further explanation. Could this possibly mean there is a replaceable fuse or breaker inside the motor?

Is there any way to get a new control board for the motor? Hate to just throw away a brand new motor that works fine when it gets the proper commands.

 

[a33]

You've no knowledge of electronics? To open up the motors, and check what is wrong?

Or maybe we see a burnt element in it, that might be easily replaced. (Though you must be sure, that not more components are also defective....)

This is a real pity. Two motors and one receiver defective, and untrustworthy....

greetz,
A33

 

[Terryl]

The internal current limiting is usually done via special circuitry, or reset-able circuit breaker, it should not use a fuse, that would be a very poor design.

If you can a bench test would be the quickest way to see what may be going on, several short pieces of coax and a receiver that is working is a good test.

Is anything other then the LNB, motor and receiver connected to this system???

 

[greencajun]

The internal current limiting is usually done via special circuitry, or reset-able circuit breaker, it should not use a fuse, that would be a very poor design.

If you can a bench test would be the quickest way to see what may be going on, several short pieces of coax and a receiver that is working is a good test.

Is anything other then the LNB, motor and receiver connected to this system???

No, nothing else is connected. If there is a reset-able breaker, it must be inside
the motor, there's no reset button I can find on the outside. I've been trying to open the old motor to see how the inside looks, but the motor is held together with 4 screws that are rusted in and are proving difficult to remove, tried some spray and oil but that did not help. Hopefully the new motor will be easier to open but at the moment it is still up on the mast.

I suppose I could return the new motor as it is under warranty, but that seems a bit unfair since it was apparently the receiver that blew it. Although apparently the current limit protector in the motor apparently failed.

 

[Trust]

I opened al lot of different diseqc H2H motors and never seen a reset-able breaker .
The over-current protection is electronic and let the yellow led on the bottom of the motor blink or burn ( at least with a SG2100 )

 

[jeallen01]

The internal current limiting device is probably a simple "polyswitch" which "switches OFF" when the current gets beyond its rated current limit - and then automatically back ON when the drawn current drops below that number (but the drawn current often needs to drop to zero before that happens) - widely used in all sorts of electronic devices, especially to protect ports like USB and so on. (I once failed an interview because I didn't know about polyswitches - so I soon learnt about, and sometimes used, them after that!)

Can't be manually reset, although totally switching off the device (e.g the sat Rx), and allowing time for the internal secondary voltages to drop
to zero would do that - if it has failed to a short-circuit state, then the only option is a like-for-like replacement on the PCB/PWB, and it's likely to be situated very close to the connection in question.

 

[greencajun]

It's back from the dead, it works! A local suggested that pressing both the East and West manual buttons on the motor for 5 seconds would reset the motor to factory state, and it looks like he was right. The motor is now turning as it should, at least for now (knock on wood).

 

[a33]

I'm just wondering if this would really have been a current limiting protection, then?

When a reset works, it would suggest to me that the motor memory was corrupted somehow, maybe by an incorrectly interpreted motor command or so?
Do you remember giving a specific motor command, just before the malfunction occurred?

And did the same reset, also work on the other motor?

It still is a strange phenomenon, that I've not read about before...

Greetz,
A33

 

[jeallen01]

...When a reset works, it would suggest to me that the motor memory was corrupted somehow, maybe by an incorrectly interpreted motor command or so?
Do you remember giving a specific motor command, just before the malfunction occurred?

And did the same reset, also work on the other motor?

It still is a strange phenomenon, that I've not read about before...

Greetz,
A33

@a33
IIIRC, a year or two ago, I mentioned here that one of my Alsat motors suffered the same issue on several occasions, i.e. it would drive West OK, but not East past 28E - I eventually realised that this only happened after I had been steering it with the Free Sat V7S but then swopped to another receiver (usually the TM5402). Thus I haven't used the V7S since then!
NB: the problem didn't happen with an Openbpx V8, nor with either of the SX88's, or when a motor was driven by the SX and then by the TM, or vice-versa.

In both instances, trying a remote motor reset from the Rx didn't work, so I had to use almost the same on-the-motor reset method as greencajun - although, per the Alsat instructions, I had to disconnect the feed from the Rx just before doing that, and then reconnect it afterwards.

Therefore I suspect the issue could be more common than you might think - and that the cause could well be the Rx sending corrupted DiSEqC signals to the motor, and that some receivers are more prone to causing it than others.

 

[greencajun]

I'm just wondering if this would really have been a current limiting protection, then?
When a reset works, it would suggest to me that the motor memory was corrupted somehow, maybe by an incorrectly interpreted motor command or so?
Do you remember giving a specific motor command, just before the malfunction occurred?
And did the same reset, also work on the other motor?

I recall getting the new motor pointed at 19E for Astra 1 then swinging it west to 13E and getting it set up for Hotbird. Then I turned it east to 28E and set up Astra 2, and after that it would not turn back west.

I want to try the same reset on the old motor but have not done so yet. It is a different brand so it might not work.

The local who fixed my problem has a theory that somehow a west limit stop was set at 28E, which prevented a westward turn once I moved the antenna east to 28E. He thinks the Go to Reference command ignores stop limits. Maybe he's right, although I certainly did not set a west limit stop on either motor.