Diving, Should technology be used to stop it?

[rolfw]

A few people have mentioned it in other threads, but I thought that FIFA, UEFA, the FA and others were looking to stamp out simulation, a polite term for diving.

The refs to the greater extent, seem to be missing it, have seen several examples in most games, but some really blatant ones which have gone completely unpunished, even though the referee has decided that it was a dive.

It is one of the the few things which in my opinion should be punished after the event, particularly where the offence is calculated and leads to a goal or sending off.

Have now added a Poll, you can vote for more than one option if applicable.

 

[wod]

well if you had just seen the australia match you would have seen a dive, nothing really can be done about it as its up to the ref decision to whether or not it a dive or foul

 

[rolfw]

I did watch it, hence the post, but diving is often something which cannot be spotted by the referee, as they (the divers) are very skilful and most of the incident is not visible to the ref.

There is no reason whatsoever why players who commit match changing dives should not be penalised, even after the match.

I seem to remember one of the Ecuadorian players going down like he'd been shot and when the replay was viewed, the English player was not even close to making contact, he simply dropped to the ground, in my mind that should be at least a one match International suspension and a fine on that association.

When are FIFA going to wake up and give way to a proper off the field official with the benefit of video replay, it would nip all of this garbage in the bud. And before anyone starts citing the "It will make the game less fluent" mantra, what does the constant arguing and pleading of the players after one of these incidents do, if not hold up the play?

 

[Sir Bronking]

The refs to the greater extent, seem to be missing it, have seen several examples in most games, but some really blatant ones which have gone completely unpunished, even though the referee has decided that it was a dive.

It is one of the the few things which in my opinion should be punished after the event, particularly where the offence is calculated and leads to a goal or sending off.

couldn't agree more. i know it adds to the excitment for neutrals, but it will never be stamped out if there is no form of retribution, italy couldn't give a tragically obscene what people say now theyve won. feel sorry for aussies, but when 1 man up they should have gone for it

 

[jimbo]

Lucas Neill was a bit naiive I think going to ground like that. It wasn't a penalty or a foul of any sort but the referee was fooled. If Neill had stood up they would still be playing extra time now.


I agree with you Rolf, it has to be stopped but FIFA are toothless. Any organisation that can't even deal with racism such as exists in Spain, is not going to sort out cheats on the field of play.:mad:
Trouble is they might start to make examples of us on Saturday.

 

[Mickha]

The match last night, between Holland and Portugal, had players diving from the kick off, and nothing was done. I haven't seen any retroactive punishment, and what is the role of the 5th referee, as I haven't noticed anything yet, even though he has a TV monitor and I assume is in touch with the referee.
If a ref books a couple of players for diving early, and for requesting other players to be booked, by imitating the referee in showing a yellow card, hopefully this behaviour would stop, and we would get some flowing football.

 

[rolfw]

That's the problem, they have been given a directive to book players for bad tackles, but have no way of double checking whether it was actually a foul and this is causing more diving. The Holland Portugal match was a case in point, it started off well, but turned into one of the most bad tempered and unenjoyable matches I have watched, simply because of this.

 

[Salty25]

for me, I could NEVER support video referees within the game, ie not during a match.

It WOULD DEFINITELY breakup the fluency of the game, and if anyone has watched NFL, they would understand that it would not be half as exciting as it is now. Football would not be football.

For me, the only technology should be to microchip the ball so that the ref would know if it did cross the line. But that is the limit.

I feel retrospective action is the way to go, whereby a commitee of refs/officials need to review every game, and punish those players are clearly persistant in cheating/diving. This would only be implemented in leagues/tournaments that can afford it. Also, the rule whereby if a ref takes action on the pitch, ie the yellow card to Figo for headbutting, the authorities can do nothing retrospectively should be abolished. Refs can not see everything - they dont become God for 90 minutes! Also, on the Figo incident - what were the linesmen doing????

 

[Sir Bronking]

Also, on the Figo incident - what were the linesmen doing????

taking a break and having a kitkat

 

[Salty25]

taking a break and having a kitkat

yeah, probably O-Ha quality ad.

 

[rolfw]

Salty, are you telling me that you thought the Portugal v Holland game was fluent?

 

[Salty25]

Salty, are you telling me that you thought the Portugal v Holland game was fluent?

no, but if you have video refs, thats how fluent EVERY SINGLE GAME will become - 20 minutes of football and 60 minutes of officiating. Nobody wants that.

 

[Sir Bronking]

more women would watch (they love a good argument/soap)

 

[rolfw]

no, but if you have video refs, thats how fluent EVERY SINGLE GAME will become - 20 minutes of football and 60 minutes of officiating. Nobody wants that.

That's where I disagree, it is in my opinion all too often the exaggerated scaremongering of people who do not like change, all of the incidents in that match could have been handled in half the time had a video referee been on the team, as he would only be called in if the referee feels he needs assistance, or if he sees that the referee has made a mistake.

At the moment, the new rules with the added responsibility heaped on the referee, who is only human and prone to being mislead or simply missing things, is killing the game. Good referees aren't suddenly becoming bad referees, they are simply being overloaded. The only answer I can see is to improve supervision, or decrease the amount of rules.

 

[Salty25]

That's where I disagree, it is in my opinion all too often the exaggerated scaremongering of people who do not like change, all of the incidents in that match could have been handled in half the time had a video referee been on the team, as he would only be called in if the referee feels he needs assistance, or if he sees that the referee has made a mistake.

At the moment, the new rules with the added responsibility heaped on the referee, who is only human and prone to being mislead or simply missing things, is killing the game. Good referees aren't suddenly becoming bad referees, they are simply being overloaded. The only answer I can see is to improve supervision, or decrease the amount of rules.

And when we watch the pundits analyse some incidents, how many times do they have to keep replaying, and looking at things from different angles, and STILL not be able to come to a conclusive decision? Imagine that in a game. For me, the argument just doesnt stand up. Retrospective action would be just as effective, both in prevention and punishment. If players that were adjudged, retrospectively, to have dived/cheating persistently in a game were suspended from the remainder of a World Cup, or were suspended for 4/5 games in a league season, you'd see such incidents end within weeks.

 

[rolfw]

So in the meantime one team departs from the competition, for the cheats to go on.

Pundits take ages discussing incidents because that is their job and filling space is what they do. A referee looks at it from a diferent point of view and if undecided will make the best decision possible in the limited time, but it has to be better than many of the ones made at the moment.

Comparing this with the American football game is a bit of a red herring, as it is a different game altogether, the Americans wouldn't like it if it was fluent, they don't get on with Rugby afterall, not enough breaks.

 

[Salty25]

Unfortunately, its too late to do anything about Italy or Portugal's victories, but would you agree that had there been extremely harsh suspensions against diving/cheating, players would think twice before trying. It wasnt as if Italy were losing was it? Perhaps if a players is adjudged to have cheated/dived in a World Cup, they are not only suspended from the remainder of the tournament, but also would not be eligible to receive a winner medal, a similiar sanction could be levied in the league season if a players is suspended three times for the same offence.

Also, video refs would be under pressure to make quick decision, so their just as likely to get it wrong as a ref on the pitch.

Video refs, in a way, doenst discourage players from doing it, in affect the rules of the game are amended to take account of the fact diving is a part of the game, and thats wrong. I want players to stop doing, if they do it, to be vilived by fans, their club, their manager, and their fellow players. Players must learn that doing simply will not be worth it.

 

[T_G]

Im with Salty on this one. The easiest and cheapest solution, which could be implemented (TOMORROW if Fifa wanted to) is to add assistant refs behind the goal, connected to the ref with a microphone and earplug and even with a flag. I am 1000% sure that an assistent ref behind the goal would have spotted the italian dive...they already got 5 refs there, add one more and put up two behind the goals. The refs need help in free kick and corner situations, as well as strikers diving or being fouled when they are running away from the ref.
If there are any gods or deities out there who like football and read this thread: For the love of yourself, please appear in Sepp Bladders nightmare and make him do it please!!!!

 

[Salty25]

Im with Salty on this one. The easiest and cheapest solution, which could be implemented (TOMORROW if Fifa wanted to) is to add assistant refs behind the goal, connected to the ref with a microphone and earplug and even with a flag. I am 1000% sure that an assistent ref behind the goal would have spotted the italian dive...they already got 5 refs there, add one more and put up two behind the goals. The refs need help in free kick and corner situations, as well as strikers diving or being fouled when they are running away from the ref.
If there are any gods or deities out there who like football and read this thread: For the love of yourself, please appear in Sepp Bladders nightmare and make him do it please!!!!

That wasnt exactly what I was proposing, but yes, 'penalty area' refs would be a good idea I suppose. I know sometime ago that FIFA were looking into the idea of two refs, but that was a messy idea. two additional refs and retrospective action would go along way to clearing it stuff up.

If anyone watch Aussie Rules (I think I'm right, I may not be though), they have assistant refs which monitor the goal area, and from memory that seems to work quite well.

 

[rolfw]

I can't see how video referees would be just as likely to make incorrect decisions, they would have to have a far better chance of accurately adjudicating on incidents, even given restricted time.

I am not for one minute suggesting that they are involved in every decision and could see how that would disrupt the flow, but something needs to be done and quickly.

I certainly like the idea of the goal line referees, they would certainly make a huge impact and go some way to combatting the diving, perhaps also some of the bad tackles, although some of the worst and dangerous tackles are often committed in the middle of the pitch when players are running at full speed.

I guess that we are never going to get total agreement on any of this, apart from the fact that something needs to be done and done soon.