EBU radio feeds

[7mdish]

Anyone has updated information about EBU radio (not TV) feeds? Are they broadcasted by satellite or fibre? I refer particularly to live classical music concerts, but also news and sports. Regarding classical music, there is an EBU service named Euroradio used to broadcast such live concerts from many european locations, rebroadcasted to listeners of many public radio stations in Europe (BBC in UK, RFI in France, RAI in Italy and so on). Some years ago these feeds weree on Eutelsat 7 East distributed through a proprietary, narrow-band, non-DVB system (symbol rate lower than 2 mb/s I believe). Now I don't know, fibre maybe? Any advice? Thanks.

 

[Adam792]

Interesting question, I've wondered this before too.

I've just searched and couldn't find much information except this interesting presentation from 2010 - Euroradio

This talks about replacing the 16 year old previous system with a new DVB-IP system using DVB-S2 with a low symbol rate (DVB-S2 8PSK SR: 365 FEC: 3/4).

If the screenshot in the presentation is of the actual 'live' replacement system, and it's still in use now (11 years later, but the DVB-S2 IP system remains fairly up-to-date!), plus we assume that the satellite in use is still Eutelsat 7°E (I think this is likely considering it is used for other EBU feeds still), then the frequencies in use are potentially -

11024.45 365 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/4
11025.25 365 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/4

I can't see the polarisation mentioned, but there's only H and V to try! Can anybody see any sign of these on 7°E with a PC card in something like Crazyscan?

The only problem is that the codec used for the audio is aptX by the look of it, which isn't decodable using consumer receivers. It's possible that this could have switched to exclusively IP distribution by now of course though.

 

[7mdish]

Could anyone confirm all this? At the moment I'm not able to perform any test because I'm waiting for my new dish (just ordered a 2.4m).
When the dish will be here, I can try with my TBS5925 PC card and maybe (not sure) I could have little chance to make some tests using an old RX8200, but I don't think that box includes APTX codec, and I don't know which professional receiver support it. And, what about NS4? Any possible switch to Novelsat after 2010? Thanks.

 

[SimonE]

Interesting question, I've wondered this before too.

I've just searched and couldn't find much information except this interesting presentation from 2010 - Euroradio

This talks about replacing the 16 year old previous system with a new DVB-IP system using DVB-S2 with a low symbol rate (DVB-S2 8PSK SR: 365 FEC: 3/4).

If the screenshot in the presentation is of the actual 'live' replacement system, and it's still in use now (11 years later, but the DVB-S2 IP system remains fairly up-to-date!), plus we assume that the satellite in use is still Eutelsat 7°E (I think this is likely considering it is used for other EBU feeds still), then the frequencies in use are potentially -

11024.45 365 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/4
11025.25 365 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/4

I can't see the polarisation mentioned, but there's only H and V to try! Can anybody see any sign of these on 7°E with a PC card in something like Crazyscan?

The only problem is that the codec used for the audio is aptX by the look of it, which isn't decodable using consumer receivers. It's possible that this could have switched to exclusively IP distribution by now of course though.

Nothing seen this morning on those two frequencies H or V. The three Eurovision News feeds are there and active. There is a signal s/r=1905 ACM/VCM just below the news feeds 11041H. Just above the news feeds there's four narrow signal-roughly 1mhz each.

 

[mapperuo]

I can also see that freq at 11041 but no idea what it is sadly.

 

[satesco]

Interesting question, I've wondered this before too.

I've just searched and couldn't find much information except this interesting presentation from 2010 - Euroradio

This talks about replacing the 16 year old previous system with a new DVB-IP system using DVB-S2 with a low symbol rate (DVB-S2 8PSK SR: 365 FEC: 3/4).

If the screenshot in the presentation is of the actual 'live' replacement system, and it's still in use now (11 years later, but the DVB-S2 IP system remains fairly up-to-date!), plus we assume that the satellite in use is still Eutelsat 7°E (I think this is likely considering it is used for other EBU feeds still), then the frequencies in use are potentially -

11024.45 365 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/4
11025.25 365 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/4

I can't see the polarisation mentioned, but there's only H and V to try! Can anybody see any sign of these on 7°E with a PC card in something like Crazyscan?

The only problem is that the codec used for the audio is aptX by the look of it, which isn't decodable using consumer receivers. It's possible that this could have switched to exclusively IP distribution by now of course though.

Hi Adam792,

For the moment I am not with the antenna at 7.0E,but I will move soon to 11024 V,365,3/4.
But this transponder is not new, I found it in 2015 and then I made some recordings with this stream. Fortunately, this file I uploaded here.
I hope you can use it and, who knows, maybe you can find out more information about this stream.
Best regards

 

[7mdish]

The signal at 11040H SR 1905 is active from years but I was never able to decode nothing. I believe it is some data stream not related with EBU. As I said, I can not test yet.

 

[satesco]

...

11024.45 365 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/4
11025.25 365 DVB-S2 8PSK 3/4

I can't see the polarisation mentioned, but there's only H and V to try! Can anybody see any sign of these on 7°E with a PC card in something like Crazyscan?

...

I checked 7.0E trp 11023/11024/25 V,365,3/4.Unfortunately it is no longer active, instead there is now a feed.
In fact I was expecting not to find it, because in the last few years I have not seen it on the analyzer.I t is true that I have not searched it as I should have, but with the very strong signal I had six years ago I should have found it easily without digging deeper. Back then this trps had the Verical polarity. Trp. 11024 V,364,3/4,8PSK disappeared with the change of Eutelsat 7A.
From my experience with feeds, I can say that usually providers don't keep a radio stream for long, especially with low symbol rate, on a satellite with a large number of feeds, between 10950-11700 MHz, like on Eutelsat 7B/C or Eutelsat 10E.
So it's not to be found now.
If you think it can console you for the lack of 11024 V, then try 11568 V, 17016 V, 2/3, where you will find a package of radio streams. Strong signal on this transponder.

 

[7mdish]

Perhaps checking during a live concert broadcasted by Euroradio could be a good idea. Sometimes it happens on Monday evening starting with Autumn season and during the Winter, or during special events like BBC Proms or La Scala theater opening on December 7th or Vienna New Year Concert and so on. During these events there are surely such Euroradio transmission.

 

[7mdish]

I resume this discussion from September 2021.
After exactly 3 years, has anyone any news about this topic?
Euroradio service does continue to distribute many live classical concerts (other than more feeds obviously) to EBU members and associates.
So, this EBU links are always on. But no information about them.
It would be very interesting to know if they are delivered by satellite or (sadly) only via IP.
Any updated advice would be very appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Have you considered writing to them ? (Email link under support)

Euroradio Season

The Euroradio Season is made up of series of predominantly live concerts and operas that are offered by Members, Associates and Approved Participants, curated by experts from within the EBU community, and broadcast each year from mid-September to mid-June.

www.ebu.ch

The key contact would be the secretary to Antonio.

 

[7mdish]

Have you considered writing to them ? (Email link under support)

Euroradio Season

The Euroradio Season is made up of series of predominantly live concerts and operas that are offered by Members, Associates and Approved Participants, curated by experts from within the EBU community, and broadcast each year from mid-September to mid-June.

www.ebu.ch

The key contact would be the secretary to Antonio.

Well, I strongly doubt they would reply to me.....

 

[Channel Hopper]

Well, I strongly doubt they would reply to me.....

Why, are you on their naughty list or something ?

 

[7mdish]

Why, are you on their naughty list or something ?

Obviously no, but in my experience the EBU is a very closed organisation, and they are not so pleased to tell such information to any person outside of their group. Particularly technical infos.
However, I could try and see what happens.

 

[7mdish]

Another question about this topic.
Anyone knows which public broadcaster has the richest offer regarding live Euroradio classical music concerts?
The italian RAI Radio3 delivers some event but very few of them are live. They prefer to deliver concerts scheduled by the italian halls in the evening, so most Euroradio concerts are recorded and broadcasted during the daytime (mainly at 12pm, 11am in the UK, not an ideal situation you know).
Obviously we have top quality halls, theaters and concerts here in Italy, but I would like to listen more Euroradio events live, and I don't know which station would be better to tune.
Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Channel Hopper]

I have clients that subscribe to events hosted online by the Royal Opera House which I believe uses a similar system for event viewing.

There is another whose name escapes me currently.

Edit, it has changed its name in the past year, now RBO

https://www.rbo.org.uk/stream/offer#ways-to-watch

 

[/dev/ttyS0]

Pure radio concerts with Eurovision Services as provider are afaik nowadays only broadcast via IP over the EBU fiber network (FiNE) and additional Icecast servers as backup.

I think that this might also happen to TV feeds some day as well. The EBU has started experimenting with SRT as third distribution technology in addition to FiNE and Satellite.

Olympia this year for example was distributed over SRT over the public internet as well (Orange was distribition service provider this time, not Eurovision)

 

[7mdish]

Someone told me that the Laver Cup (tennis event) last September was distributed via SRT too.
Not sure about this method, but I think that it is such a streaming distributed via public internet instead of private network. Is it correct?
Anyone could give more information? Thanks.

 

[/dev/ttyS0]

Yes, exactly. Almost all of SRTs use in the broadcasting industry I have seen so far was done over the public internet.

EBU FiNE distributions on the other hand are not based on SRT. They use a hardware platform called "Nimbra" from the Swedish company NetInsight to form their fiber backbone network.
These Nimbra appliances can be equipped with line cards to handle ASI, SDI, IP or ATM transmissions.

Using a dedicated private fiber network has the huge advantage of ensuring service quality and increases security and availability as these links cannot be DDoSed or attacked in some other way.

On the other side: It is very expensive and not all broadcasters in the world are connected to it