I hope this is the best section for this, as the query(s) are interconnected

[ozumo]

Regarding waterproofing, sometimes efforts to keep water out can result in the creation of a water trap were moisture eventually finds a way in and is unable to escape. There are push on rubber boots available that can be used instead of amalgamating tape, as well as F-connectors with a small rubber ring inside but they are harder to screw onto the LNB.

Some LNBs have pull down hoods that cover the connectors. Currently I use a piece of plastic gutter zip tied over the LNB - primarily to stop the LNB cooking in the sun but it also does a decent job of keeping the connections dry.

 

[jeallen01]

Late to the party but the following may be useful:

This page on the old (and not now updated) Satcure website gives a lot of useful dimensions and other info on the various ypes of cables commonly used for domestic satellite installations Coaxial Cable Specifications WF100 CT100 WF65 RG6

The CPC Farnell on-line catalogue is here CPC Catalogue 2021 and pages 567-569 list many types of F-connectors and you can then click on the products shown to go the website pages which give specific data & data sheets (including the dimensions of the cables onto which they are designed to fit) for each one.

As far as removing & connecting F-connectors to LNBs (etc.) I have a range of small open-ended spanners (mainly 11mm & 7/16th because the nut sizes actually vary quite a bit!) where I have ground down the outer sides of the jaws so it is then much easier to get them around closely-spaced connections on LNBs and DiSEqC switches! Several of those very small spanners are from "ignition spanner sets" such as some of these because they are much more "petite" than general purpose spanners with the same jaw sizes.

Finally, I generally use 19mm wide self-amalgamating tape (the quality does vary a lot but I find this "FIXMAN" stuff is better than most !), but if I can't use that (especially around multiple connections on an LNB or switch) then this sort of spray-on "PLASTI- DIP" "liquid tape" seems to work very well.

 

[Alan22]

Yeah moisture is a right pain, try explaining to the wife about where drips are coming from is hell on earth, I was a builder before forced to retire, and have seen how water travels from somewhere you would not expect, passing over obvious points where you would expect it from, and I have seen walls collapse due to moisture\weather as well, where bricks\blocks freshly laid in winter, but not adequately protected so when the frost comes down the moisture swells as it freezes.

Mobile phones are another example, the amount of times I've seen people puzzled why warranty refuses to mend their phones because it was liquid damaged, so is not covered, I have to explain the effect of hot and cold weather, and putting\taking your phone in\out of your pockets causes big temperature changes that create condensation, luckily todays phones are not as likely to face this compared to older phones, but I did notice the rubber washer you mention for the first time ever I think, but the old and new LNB's both have shields that drop down to help protect them.


Love the idea of the spanners, but I am at risk of losing fingers with my ability's these days lol, but even without that, the amount of times I do such jobs is once in a blue moon, it wouldn't be worth it, so I just swear a lot as I go and swear never again lol, but some great tips and links there, I'll have to have a play and see where it takes me lol.

Anyway that is this part done with then, onto the next, I did it this way to avoid confusion, I just bought a Samsung QE50QN94A TV, and it has satellite ports on there, but dammed if I can find out how to use them, obviously I'm not going to blindly screw a satellite lead into it without knowing what will happen, the only detail I can find shows Main and Sub, by the name Main indicates that is the port you use(?), but they are different lengths (ease of connecting?), and I can't figure out what Sub is for, any idea how to make the most of these?

Also while not quite in this subject, but it's too small for it's own thread, there are 2 USB ports, the obvious is to plug say a thumb drive in and go through playing media, photo's etc, I get the feeling that I could also connect a hard drive and use it as a PVR as well?
Assuming this to be the case, which port would be used for what as they have different ratings for power on them?


Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[jeallen01]

Can't help any more with most of the above, but ref connecting a USB external hard drive, that should be possible as I have an old 320GB drive in an external enclosure and attached to my 2 yr old LG TV and it will record programmes (not that I actually do that very often at all for the 2nd reason shown below).

The only real issues were/are:
- Power: used a 2x USB A to 1 USB B power combiner lead and then to a USB B to the micro USB input on the external HDD enclosure; that gives sufficient current for recording & replay (will post a link to how to get one of those in a few minutes)
- I can only record the channel which I am watching at the time because the TV only has 1 tuner and that thus ties the TV up until the end of the programme being recorded; whereas, by comparison, I can record a 2nd channel whilst watching the 1st on the SKY HD box (DRX895 - still on the original HDD after nearly 10 years ) because it has 2 tuners.

 

[Alan22]

Well as best I can see they have a 0.5a and 1amp rating, so 1 has double the power of the other, an SSD should make a big difference Re power requirements I'd of thought?

As to tuners, my gut says it has 3 tuners, purely based on 3 connectors, as it has the traditional roof aerial input, and has 2 F Connector inputs, but I am just guessing here, since leaving Sky the box is watch only, you can't record on it, which is why I wondered about this as a workaround, I'm still trying to get to grips with this TV, very unimpressed so far, my previous Samsung 3D TV was better in picture and sound, sun made the old one tricky at times, but this new one is useless when the sun hits it full on, you may as well be blind the amount you can see, but it would be interesting to see if I could use live pause if nothing else, Thanks for the reply.

 

[jeallen01]

Addition to Post 24: something from this page might be suitable, but you may need a further adapter from that to the external HDD/SSD enclosure as most of those are now micro USB. OTOH, might have to come from China as they are a bit thin on the ground in the UK nowadays! Also, some of the older smallish capacity HDDs are quite thick (12.5mm or so) and may not fit the currently available cases (had to tape my own case together!).

As for using an SSD to reduce the power required - would need to check the actual power requirement and might be quite a bit more expensive than an equivent size HDD, especially if you get a large capacity one.

 

[ozumo]

From another site:

If you connect the aerial to the ANT IN (Satellite Main) port of the TV, then head to Settings > Broadcasting > Auto Tuning Settings > Auto Tuning, and run through the on screen instructions, then this will be all you'll need to access the Freesat channels. If you encounter any issues, you could try connecting a second cable, then press the button on your remote with a red, green and yellow circle (if 123 is written below the circles, press the button twice) > Aerial Type > Dual
---
I wonder if 'dual' mode is for a wideband Sky Q type LNB or if it allows one channel to recorded while watching a different one. The manual I looked at doesn't make it clear.

You can get push-on adapters that screw into the F-connector. They're only really suitable for indoor connections but makes it easier to attach the cable to the receiver or TV.

 

[jeallen01]

.....You can get push-on adapters that screw into the F-connector. They're only really suitable for indoor connections but makes it easier to attach the cable to the receiver or TV.

This is what you get from ebay QTY 10 Quick Fit F Connector Male Plug To Female Adapter Push On RF Coaxial 5055538130793 | eBay , but they get quite "loose" if connected /disconnected "regularly" because the wire circlip isn't very strong and so the slip-on barrel opens up

OTOH, I have found that these Vision ones from CPC (and elsewhere but usually only by the 100!) are a lot more resistent to that happening https://cpc.farnell.com/vision/v17-004/adaptor-f-type-f-qk-m/dp/CN16233?CMP=i-ddd7-00001003

 

[Alan22]

Yeah I won't be plugging anything in until I know if it's safe or not, last thing I need is to fry all my kit, and even without that risk, being a builder I always make sure my electrics are safe, I'm no sparks, but I know more than anyone who has not wired anything up before (above putting on a 13A plug, back when you had too), the last I recall manufacturers had to pre-fit plugs on nearly everything because people didn't know how to do something that basic and dying in the process, hell even the councils 'qualified' sparks contractors that came in and rewired our house were useless, I made a 13 page report of the dangerous condition they left it in, faceplates hanging off leaving space for little fingers, touched 1 wire under the floor and it tripped the fuse box as it shorted out, so I made it good myself so I knew it was done right, it's just been a long time so triple checking first.

But those connectors are no use for anything but coax connections, any satellite fitting has to be screw thread by the nature of it's design, but I have used such connectors in a mates place when he got rid of Virgin, as he had no roof aerial, but the free satellite channels were still on, so I just hooked up Virgins lead to one of those and plugged it in, job done, but I did come across some 'compression' fittings, some require a tool, others are self compressing, these are probably what I was thinking of saying new style before I saw the name earlier while hunting, and if the writing is anything to go by they are weather tight as well, so will look closer at them when time allows, but at least I know what I'm up to now.


Thanks for all the help guys, it's saved my sanity.

 

[ozumo]

The push-on connectors linked to by jeallen01 do indeed work on satellite connections, you still need the f-connector on the cable, the push-on adapter then screws into the F-connector. The adapter then can be pushed over the threaded connector on the receiver. It's much easier than trying the screw on the F-connector the usual way.

 

[Alan22]

Really
When I looked earlier they just looked like an F Connector to Coax plug that you would use for the TV style fitting, as I can't see any thread inside to secure it to the threaded connection, but looked again and if I am getting it right this time, they do push on like a Coax plug, but over the threaded connection?

Sorry about that, never seen anything like that before (I said I was out of touch lately lol), but they are not something that I would use currently, as I have to fit F Connectors to the cable anyway, so although it would certainly make it easier to connect to the device, currently I have the space to use my tool on it, even if I swear at it a lot lol, the LNB would be the obvious place where they would save me from hell, but as you said outside they may not be up to it, I wish it was the other way round, but Thanks for pointing that out, never seen anything like it before.

 

[ozumo]

they do push on like a Coax plug, but over the threaded connection?

Yes that's how they work. You could use them on the LNB if you make sure the cable is tied to the dish arm so there's as little weight as possible pulling down on the connector and preventing movement, plus making sure they are protected from rain. Amalgamating tape could be used to cover up joint to the F-connector and the cable before hand, then if the LNB has a drop down cover that would probably be sufficient.

 

[Alan22]

That's certainly a sideways step to the norm, in any type of construction I always look at weak points, and the risk if using them, in this case every join produces a weak spot, and as much as it will kill me to redo the connections , at least it's the last time I should ever need to touch them again, I have used the drop down shield type LNB's, so as you say it does offer protection, the only question is how much, which is an individual case due to peoples locations and placement of their kit, as some are more shielded than others by their surroundings, in my case it gets a massive amount of exposure from the sun all day long, so thermal movement is guaranteed to happen, and to the extreme as we have gone through 3 front doors as the sun has warped them, but Thanks for the suggestion, I'm sure it would work for many people, but the con's outweigh the pro's in my case.

 

[Alan22]

Well it's been a hell of a fun time doing this, taken a few days so far, part through getting nowhere fast the first few days multiple attempts, I asked the seller about any tricks I may be missing, and they sent me their instruction video, which looked a lot easier to do, but the difference was subtle, took me a few watches, checking previous research, and stumbling on a comment by one guide, saying they do sell cable 'stretchers(?)' to stretch the sleeve and make it easier to go in, but then said they are too expensive for the average Joe to by for a one off job, so they carried on with brute force, I say brute force because it's a strength I don't have as all my muscles are dying (including those you don't think of), but with that in mind I started to have a thought.

I tried to stretch the sleeve a bit manually, but it failed every time, then I watched the sellers video making it look so easy again a few times, and I caught sight of the cable in prepared state being put in the connector, took a few goes at pausing it at the millisecond that was clear, and they had removed the foil from the inner core, so I removed the foil and also stretched the sleeve lifting the edge with my Stanley Knife, and talk about a difference, I have no idea what the difference is between videos leaving the foil on and using some force to push it on (something I can't do), and removing the exposed foil, obviously I didn't touch anything under the sleeve, and as such I have no idea which side of the foil the plug went on as it was pushed on, and I have no idea if there may be a technical reason for what side of the plug the foil is on, e.g. either inside the foil with the strands next to it, or outside the foil separating the strands from the foil, if that makes sense?

Got some strength back in my hands again now, so weather and body permitting I will do the dish tomorrow, but it will be a serious strain off a ladder and working the way I could indoors while sat, but I have another question re Silicone Grease, I've used it indoors, but the article I saw about it was saying to pack the plug full of it, sounding like they meant the central core that connects as well, but somewhere else said leave the inside as it's no good there (something along those lines, memory is not great anymore), and to apply it outside the connectors after connecting them, and renew it every year (he lives by the sea apparently and found it keeps his cables protected from the sea air, which is the total opposite of the research I found by a guy who started out as testing the connectivity of cables indoors and out professionally for a company prior to moving over to satellites, and said it makes a massive boost to the loss of signal making it much stronger, and as many video's I've found putting on the connectors, I have not seen a single one with the grease being applied, the odd mention maybe, but not displayed, as I say the article suggests just packing the entire plug from what I can figure, anyone have suggestions about where\how to add the grease?

I've done the indoor cables already, and only placed it on the sleeve area as an aid to pushing it on as well as I needed to get them done, but given the condition of the old connections on the dish it makes perfect sense to protect the connection as best possible, as the centre core was in a right state on 3 of the leads, which makes perfect sense why I had the progressive fault the way it did, but not having money to waste I didn't want to get an LNB (which was high on my suspect list) if it turned out to just be failed cable on the box connections, because the quandary was on my first cable connection repair it worked, but a few days later it failed again, and with the constant twisting and straining to put the plugs on, I did have to wonder about a kind of 'spiral fracture' along the cable due to this, but with your great help it gave me the confidence about the LNB, and here we are lol, anyway any advice on the grease would be a great help before doing the dish, and a big Thanks to everyone for getting me this far.

 

[Alan22]

RE the splitter, are you able to record BBC One HD and Sky News simultaneously?

Sorry to have taken so long, but the wife went out so I took my life in my hands, and checked this for you, and Yes it did record both channels at the same time, needless to say this was done via manually selecting each channel on it's own and hit record, I attach a few pictures of the different stages, e.g. Recording, Recorded, Watched (only played enough back to confirm it worked as the indicators will show, does that give you the info you needed?

 

[ozumo]

My guess is both programmes were partially recorded but not simultaneously. Either that or Flysat is incorrect or I have misunderstood your setup.

BBC One HD England = 10847 V (low vertical)
Sky News UK = 12070 H (high horizontal)

If a standard universal quad LNB is being used and is directly connected to the receiver it should be impossible for both channels to be recorded simultaneously from a single cable that is split. The LNB can only provide one band/polarisation at a time per cable (one of low vertical / low horizontal / high vertical / high horizontal).

 

[Alan22]

I will certainly try to check this out, but for confirmation of the above, this was recorded on a FreeSat UHD-4X 2TB box, with 1 lead supplying the splitter to the 2 ports on it, each program was done manually, so I set BBC1 HD recording, then I set Sky News recording after that, I then manually stopped both recordings, and the result was as above, I don't doubt what your saying at all, I'm just trying to report back to you what is happening here, so I will set a programmed recording up for each channel, both with the same start times, not sure if having the same end times would make any difference?
I'll let you know what happens when I have tried this.

 

[ozumo]

6am BBC Breakfast and Sky News Breakfast would be good as both will have an on-screen clock.

 

[Alan22]

Sorry about the delay, the hospital didn't go well, anyway I was forced to give up trying, the box messed me about no end, it would not let me add the recordings, I entered 1 just fine, but the other program would not play nice, and then to really mess this up it would not allow me to remove the scheduled items, no matter how many times I selected cancel recording, and every time it would confirm it's removal, but when I went back to the program guide it was still there, but I got nowhere fast, so I gave up as the wife went into paranoia mode thinking I would mess her programs up lol.

But I would have to conclude that you are bang on the money in your thoughts Re this, although I could not complete the test, the brain actually just woke up while typing this, and the penny just dropped, many a time the wife has moaned about her programs record at different times and channels than she sets in, and some channels she has to use the HD option as the SD is blank, so putting all that together you have to be right (not that I ever thought you weren't), but what has confused me is how I was able to manually record both channels at the same time, I set one recording, then I went to the other channel and set that recording as well, with the results above, that was all.

But I had to sort the cables on the dish out today, it's been raining most of the time, and the way I struggle it wasn't safe to do it sooner, had a hell of a time with 1 of the shotgun leads, must be about 4 inches shorter than the other now lol, they seem to have strong signal now, but the quality is very low, not in any way that you can see (picture etc is fine), but the system reports low quality, neither does it show the 2 connections, just one, but acknowledges there are 2 leads connected (I have now put the shotgun cable in both connectors now), so the splitter has been removed from the set up now.

Now just wondering about the quality issue, I noticed today the LNB had markers on the neck that I assume sets the skew(?) angle on it, not sure what it's supposed to be, but I didn't notice the old one having this, so not sure if I have it in the right position (same as the original posted at the start), so the bracket is fixed at the top as it's supposed to be (it can't go any higher up), but the markings as to how twisted it should be wasn't noticeable, so all I did was centralise the position roughly, but today I saw the markers and from memory I think it's at +5 (degrees?), any idea what this should be at?

I can't be that far off because I tried to make it match visually, but I was struggling by the end and just couldn't do more or I would have been on the ground, adjusting it won't be easy as it's at full stretch which is where my body fails to work as my fine motor skills are shot, along with the rest of me, any thoughts?

 

[ozumo]

When looking towards the front of the dish the cables should be exiting the LNB between 6 & 7 o'clock. The image in post #8 looks about right.