Installing Dishes In Spain for 2E Chit-Chat

[Menorca Man]

I have no idea if they take it into account or not, guess the best way would be to ask them, which I have just done for geosats.com

Will advise what reply I get

Thanks Brian. I look forward to their reply with interest. Unless 2F is pre-skewed and 2E isn't (unlikely I think), and given the similarities in skew between 2E and other birds in the vicinity, then dishpointer.com has got 2F's skew calculation horribly wrong.

 

[Archive4]

Thanks Brian. I look forward to their reply with interest. Unless 2F is pre-skewed and 2E isn't (unlikely I think), and given the similarities in skew between 2E and other birds in the vicinity, then dishpointer.com has got 2F's skew calculation horribly wrong.

I think dishpointer has it wrong, this time, not like them, but we all make mistakes, me more than most!
Will be interesting so see the response from Geosats.com

 

[Archive4]

Very interesting to me, Geosats.com have sent me a message, auto-response, but interesting. Parent is Wayana, south american tribe of native indians from south america who speak french as their native language, but obviously good with satellites.

 

[PaulR]

As far as I am aware lnb skew is a function of satellite position,latitude and longitude of dish otherwise how would a motorised dish get the correct skew?Is does look as though dishpointer is way out on Astra 2F.

Because SES-Astra pre-skew their satellites (19E & 28E - not sure about the others) motorised dishes can't. They can either be set up correctly for pre-skew (Astra 19 & 28) or for no pre-skew (all the other satellites).

Is does look as though dishpointer is way out on Astra 2F.

This was the point of my post.

 

[Archive4]

OK I asked Goesats.com and got a response in English, not French!........ Answer was

"
Hi! Brian Philpotts
Thank you for taking an interest in TrackingSat.


I know not the value of pre-skew. The calculated skew value is the value that you should use to match the polarization of the signal transmitted by the satellite with the LNB probe.

Please, look "Polarization Setting (LNB Skew)" at http://www.geosats.com/lookangle.html


Regards
Wayana Software Team
Serving the Internet Community since 1997 "

From which I assume they do not take pre-skew into account.

But they are still very clever Indians!

 

[Menorca Man]

Thanks Brian but that was a pretty lame answer from them if there ever was one!! Maybe worth posing the same question to dishpointer.com as it's their calculation for 2F that's out of step with everyone else's, including my gps driven smartphone app.

 

[Archive4]

Thanks Brian but that was a pretty lame answer from them if there ever was one!! Maybe worth posing the same question to dishpointer.com as it's their calculation for 2F that's out of step with everyone else's, including my gps driven smartphone app.

Not sure if lame is the term I would use. Had Paul R not posted about " pre skew " I would not have known either. Could be an admission of lack of knowledge, of which we are all guilty at some point, or ignorance, which I doubt. Either way, I have learnt something. No matter how much you know, there is something you don´t know!

Ask dishpointer the same question, will be interesting!

 

[PaulR]

Half the answers are in. Anyone want to bet that Dishpointer doesn't take it into account either?

 

[Archive4]

Half the answers are in. Anyone want to bet that Dishpointer doesn't either?

Who is going to ask them? Guess it´s down to the bad boy again!.. I´ll ask!

 

[Archive4]

Just asked Dishpointer.com, will expect an answer tomorrow.

 

[Archive4]

Would any, or better still all, passing moderators check my spelling regarding pre skew, for some reason my keyboard seems to be adding a CR!

 

[PaulR]

Can't see a problem with spelling or a CR (presumably carriage return).

 

[Archive4]

Can't see a problem with spelling or a CR (presumably carriage return).

No, guess your right must be my CReyboard !

 

[Archive4]

Sorry, have storm now, lost all 2E, 2F, and eutelsat 28, only have sky new and pick from European beam at mo, and running on ups and torches! only have about 2 mins power left.

WELCOME TO SPAIN!

 

[archive10]

I am fairly certain that the dish pointing sites merely calculate the theoretical skew, and does not consider any extra skew caused deliberately by operator.
Even the pointing ability of the sites too are sometimes several degrees out (I have empirical evidence of).
The precision of these sites must be considered in the light of them being *free* to use. You get whay you pay for. Just getting any reply to email should probably be considered positive (somebody actually bothers to reply!)

...but honestly, can we really rely on them for point our dishes?
The best reception is the one you get on your dish while adjusting it to maximise signal and S/N ratio for the specific needs of a specific installation/user, not the one that some web-site piggy-backing onto google earth claims using a bunch of calculations of ideal positioning of satellites 38000 km into space...
This is why we have you guys, the installers, you know, with years' of hard earned experience and plenty of clever field-strength meters to maximise reception in a jiffy.
Dishpointer etc are nice helpful means of getting a bearing, but pointing the dish is a matter of hands-on optimising!

 

[Menorca Man]

I am fairly certain that the dish pointing sites merely calculate the theoretical skew, and does not consider any extra skew caused deliberately by operator.
Even the pointing ability of the sites too are sometimes several degrees out (I have empirical evidence of).
The precision of these sites must be considered in the light of them being *free* to use. You get whay you pay for. Just getting any reply to email should probably be considered positive (somebody actually bothers to reply!)

...but honestly, can we really rely on them for point our dishes?
The best reception is the one you get on your dish while adjusting it to maximise signal and S/N ratio for the specific needs of a specific installation/user, not the one that some web-site piggy-backing onto google earth claims using a bunch of calculations of ideal positioning of satellites 38000 km into space...
This is why we have you guys, the installers, you know, with years' of hard earned experience and plenty of clever field-strength meters to maximise reception in a jiffy.
Dishpointer etc are nice helpful means of getting a bearing, but pointing the dish is a matter of hands-on optimising!

I agree that one should always finally tweak for best performance after having set the initial starting point for skew, az and el based on the theoretical calculations. I don't expect NASA type precision from these dish alignment sites but there's precision and then there's precision!! When dishpointer.com's automatic calculation for Astra 2F gives a skew reading of -18.7 degs whilst other sites and smartphone gps apps all give a reading of approximately -26.2, then I think I was justified in highlighting the anomaly don't you?

 

[Archive4]

st1, you are quite right. Even if a site told me it should be x.y degrees of skew, I wouldn´t take any notice when setting up a dish, any more than I would set my elevation by one. They are a helpful guide to get you in the right zone, but that is all. A trusty meter, or even a 14" tv and a stb are always going to be the best bet. I guess we are just trying to find out if the "guys that know" really know any more than we do! Also, it is something to discuss when in the middle of a thunderstorm you don´t want to prove it for yourself.

 

[Huevos]

when : today at about 11am I got the call....and channels came back when he was on the phone to me....
where : costa blanca north
how: probably a poorly installed dish (way too many of these around!) - as no one else has yet called and said anything - but it did happen at around the correct times...so many dishes installed quickly and aligned to 1n, and not to 2e or 2f which required a bit more precision...
why : see above
where: see above

About a week too early for sun outage. Also timing is wrong. Outage there will be centred on 11:35am, lasting no more than 10 minutes.

 

[samoloko]

when you got motorized PFA
Is there a difference In skew for Astra 28.2 and 19.2 to get better signal level
I remember that Astra 1 H was with offset

 

[PaulR]

Yes.

The discussion a few posts above reflects this. On a motorised dish you can either set the LNB with zero pre-skew for most satellites or whatever is required for Astra 2 (can't remember for sure but 3.5 - 7 degrees seems to ring a bell).

It does make a point that perhaps you should be thinking of a fixed dish for Astra 2 (and Astra 1) reception and use the motorised dish for everything else.