New antennas

zorrin

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Hi everyone,
I share with you my new installation of terrestrial antennas and the connections that go with it.
I live near Paris but behind a hill and it is difficult to receive the Eiffel Tower.
So I normally have to aim at another transmitter at the exact opposite of the tower.
I decided to put two antennas back to back.

IMG_6369.JPG

IMG_6515.JPG

I use a UHF, UHF amplifier / coupler to have the two antennas on a single cable.

1627950177029.png

At the output of the power supply I added another UHF, UHF coupler for my HDMI modulator.


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IMG_6581 B.jpg

After that I have a three-way splitter.
two of them go through two SAT / UHF couplers to feed two TV and SAT tuner with a single cable for each.
 

zorrin

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the cable coming into my living room goes into a separator SAT / UHF.
The SAT goes directly to my TV and the UHF goes into a 3 way splitter, one for the TV, one for the internet box and one for my AXAS HIS 4K COMBO.
I use black cables to the TV to make them more discreet.
The HDMI modulator is an EDISION single DVB-T in full HD.

IMG_6584.JPG
 

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Nice setup, question....Whats the front to back ratio on those antennas? You may need to add a screen between the two to prevent channel ghosting. (better isolation)

And I didn't see any ground bonding on all those splitters and amps, don't rely on the coax shields to do this, a good earth ground is very important in RF systems.
 

Adam792

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Nice setup, question....Whats the front to back ratio on those antennas? You may need to add a screen between the two to prevent channel ghosting. (better isolation)

And I didn't see any ground bonding on all those splitters and amps, don't rely on the coax shields to do this, a good earth ground is very important in RF systems.

The DVB-T network in France makes heavy use of single frequency networks, so I'm assuming here that the two transmitters being received are transmitting the multiplexes on the same frequencies, with the aim being to combine the signals.

DVB-T is suitable for this as it doesn't suffer from conditions that cause ghosting on analogue TV systems, as long as the multipath signals arrive within the guard interval (which is set to a longer value on the DVB-T multiplexes in France to make the SFNs work over medium distances).
 

Terryl

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Unless you have a professional signal combiner to properly combine two TV signals your going to have problems, one signal coming in just a few milliseconds out of phase will cause havoc.

Also the two transmitters must be on the same time-base, one slightly off or on a different time base will cause problems in the combination of the two signals.

I've worked with synchronous FM signal boosters for many years, I still get headaches thinking about all the problems we had before we went into production.
 

zorrin

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At this
Nice setup, question....Whats the front to back ratio on those antennas? You may need to add a screen between the two to prevent channel ghosting. (better isolation)

And I didn't see any ground bonding on all those splitters and amps, don't rely on the coax shields to do this, a good earth ground is very important in RF systems.
After my first tests there does not seem to be any insulation problem between the two antennas. I receive the two transmitters without problem and they are not on the same frequencies. the antenna towards Paris is not yet well directed. I am not able to capture the special Paris channels and the UHD test. the funny thing came from my TV. It seems that my TV is performing an automatic scan when the tuner is not in use. she added some belgian channels that I shouldn't be able to receive so close to Paris. but no picture :(

Otherwise the grounding will be done soon :)
 

Terryl

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Don't forget to directly ground the antennas....
 

Adam792

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Unless you have a professional signal combiner to properly combine two TV signals your going to have problems, one signal coming in just a few milliseconds out of phase will cause havoc.

Also the two transmitters must be on the same time-base, one slightly off or on a different time base will cause problems in the combination of the two signals.

I've worked with synchronous FM signal boosters for many years, I still get headaches thinking about all the problems we had before we went into production.

This tends to be achieved in European countries using SFN systems in DVB by using GPS to synchronise the transmitters. The incoming identical digital transport stream for transmission comes either via satellite, or via fibre optic.
 

zorrin

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ok i have measured the directions and distances of the transmitters i am sure i have picked up.

1628027356784.png

As you can see Bruxelles transmitter is at 251 Km and the reims one is at 120 Km but at close 90° of both antennas...
the two antennas are the simplest on the market with very little gain. The amp is well made.
now I want some really good ones :cool:
 

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I wouldn't place my two antennas into the same horizontal line, their reflectors now counteract each other. And since you say there are traces of signal from Belgium, the upper antenna should point directly to Brussels transmitter, provided the Amien transmitter is powerful enough to still allow reception from a slight angle, and leave the Eiffel antenna as it is but lower on the mast.
 

PaulR

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Surely the Bruxelles transmitter being in Belgium will give an entirely different set of Belgian channels? Would it even work with the French SFN system?
 

zorrin

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I wouldn't place my two antennas into the same horizontal line, their reflectors now counteract each other. And since you say there are traces of signal from Belgium, the upper antenna should point directly to Brussels transmitter, provided the Amien transmitter is powerful enough to still allow reception from a slight angle, and leave the Eiffel antenna as it is but lower on the mast.
Well noted @MCelliotG

I will try several solutions and test your feedback :)
But my reception results for Paris and Amiens correspond exactly to the information found on the net.

1628062277885.png

But I am going to move the antenna towards Paris to be sure not to be between the Eiffel Tower and the transmitter of chennevieres which emit on the same frequencies.
This morning I lost the local channels of Paris emitted from the Eiffel Tower, there is a hill and a forest between Paris and my house and it seems that the weather and the presence of leaves on the trees play a lot on the reception in my city.
 

zorrin

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Surely the Bruxelles transmitter being in Belgium will give an entirely different set of Belgian channels? Would it even work with the French SFN system?
At this time,i don't see channels.
Just their name catch by the TV.

La une
Tipik
La trois
Euronews
BRF

TVs sold in France must automatically classify the channels in a defined order.
As I receive several France 3 (Ile de France, Picardi and Champagne) one of them take the number 3 and the two other are classified in the 800 like the Belgian channels.
At the end only one of the duplicate received channels is displayed.
 

Adam792

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The RTBF channels from Brussels were probably picked up because of tropospheric ducting which makes signals in UHF (and VHF) travel further than they normally would, during periods of high pressure with temperature inversion.

They may appear again when the conditions are next favourable, but you’re very unlikely to receive them all the time.
 

MCelliotG

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So, a trial and error wouldn't hurt. First up, the antennas should be placed in different heights regardless.
 

zorrin

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Finally Monday morning I turned on my TV to watch the news and there, I was in Belgium.

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There were also radios and as you can see the quality was perfect.

After 30 minutes the signals began to deteriorate and disappeared completely.
 
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