Advice Needed Nextvision vbox II now not moving dish

[jeallen01]

The test was with the wires disconnected from the v-box. I think the wires have become disconnected at the motor end so when the installer can get back to check I have no idea atm. No movement with power supply. the reed sensor can be replaced on the 36v motor ?

That sounds to me like you now have TWO faults:
- somewhere (probably at the motor terminals) the M- & M+ wires have become shorted together (not disconnected!) - probably as a result of what the installer was doing up at the dish when he changed the LNB!
- that short means that the output terminals of the Vbox have thus also been shorted together, and that has caused a failure within the box itself, which then meant that it cannot output the correct voltages along the M-/M+ wires.

OTOH, I doubt that the reed relay has had any part in either failure - therefore the "solution" is probably to get the installer to correct the fault at/around the motor terminals, and then, unfortunately, to repair or replace the Vbox.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Reed sensors can be replaced without trouble, but the motor will move a small amount up or down with a static DC supply on the motor terminals, regardless of a working sensor or not.

 

[Gerry55]

One thing to check, is if the brushes in the motor have stuck.
It happed to mine.

 

[sat-tv-fan]

Chatting with a guy at satellite superstore, he thinks almost certainly the reed switch has gone, said 90% unlikely it's the vbox

 

[Channel Hopper]

Oh dear.

The motor will move regardless of the reed switch.

 

[jeallen01]

Oh dear.

The motor will move regardless of the reed switch.

But then won't stop where it should as there will not be any position feedback.

 

[Channel Hopper]

From the first post

when I try to move it E or W but it's stuck on where it was

The dish will move, albeit briefly, even with a faulty reed

 

[aceb]

somewhere (probably at the motor terminals) the M- & M+ wires have become shorted together (not disconnected!) - probably as a result of what the installer was doing up at the dish when he changed the LNB!

Lets me clear that presumption up seeing as I did the LNB swap! The closest I came to the motor was about 50CM below it and below some original insulating tape holding it to the pole when I replaced the knackered and brittle single run of coax with two new runs for the replacement LNB. The motor cable also showed signs of age but not once did it fail during testing of the new LNB driving it between 26E and 10E. He might want to check the condition of it where it's bent at 90° and run through a hole in the window frame.

The only discrepancy was on the skew because Dave requested I peak the signal on the Eumetsat data on 10E, peak SNR had the LNB skewed about 5° anti clock from where it should be.

I have no idea why it stopped working after I left with Dave happy with theresults although in a series of one sentence emails later in the day he said the motor hadn't moved when it should but a full reset cured it. Then more emails saying Astra was down, then 26E 'nothing' but that all turned out to be the signal meter he was using. So since yesterday afternoon I've been answering his emails with the same questions (and answers) as I'm seeing here. To recap my advice, put a voltmeter on 1 and 2 of the positioner output and see if you can see a brief output. Connect a 12V 3A power supply to the motor cables and see if the motor turns. I'd also meter out the motor cables to see what resistance there is between them. Or maybe I should just leave it to the experts at SSS who have diagnosed it as a faulty reed switch.

 

[sat-tv-fan]

Oh dear.

The motor will move regardless of the reed switch.

No it won't

Lets me clear that presumption up seeing as I did the LNB swap! The closest I came to the motor was about 50CM below it and below some original insulating tape holding it to the pole when I replaced the knackered and brittle single run of coax with two new runs for the replacement LNB. The motor cable also showed signs of age but not once did it fail during testing of the new LNB driving it between 26E and 10E. He might want to check the condition of it where it's bent at 90° and run through a hole in the window frame.

The only discrepancy was on the skew because Dave requested I peak the signal on the Eumetsat data on 10E, peak SNR had the LNB skewed about 5° anti clock from where it should be.

I have no idea why it stopped working after I left with Dave happy with theresults although in a series of one sentence emails later in the day he said the motor hadn't moved when it should but a full reset cured it. Then more emails saying Astra was down, then 26E 'nothing' but that all turned out to be the signal meter he was using. So since yesterday afternoon I've been answering his emails with the same questions (and answers) as I'm seeing here. To recap my advice, put a voltmeter on 1 and 2 of the positioner output and see if you can see a brief output. Connect a 12V 3A power supply to the motor cables and see if the motor turns. I'd also meter out the motor cables to see what resistance there is between them. Or maybe I should just leave it to the experts at SSS who have diagnosed it as a faulty reed switch.

They just thought it was most likely and the vbox 90% unlikely it was the problem... as I say voltage is there with pins 1 and 2, but with 1 sec of power not long enough to register full voltage on my cheap multimeter ?

 

[Mickha]

The battery test proves it isn't the V-Box II, as the battery is driving the motor, not the V-Box II, and you stated that it didn't move. When using a 12v battery it is slower, and so quieter.
I would suggest you listen to aceb, and check the 4 wires, as far as you can, to see if there is an obvious break, in the connections.
If you had easier access, to the dish, and motor, it would be easy to check everything, as all you have to do is remove the plastic cover, on the motor, put a different set of wires in the M1 and M2, connect them to a battery and observe if it moves, or not.

 

[Channel Hopper]

No it won't

Why do you think that ?

 

[jeallen01]

@sat-tv-fan.
FWIW:
If you need a higher voltage/power power supply, many laptop mains adapter outputs are 19V DC at a couple of Amps or more - that should make any movement quicker & more obvious.

Just rig up connections from the adapter coax plug outer and inner metal contacts to the M+/M- wires to the motor. Doesn't matter which way round those connections are as the dish should move in one direction with them connected one way around, and then in the other direction when the connections are reveresed.

 

[sat-tv-fan]

The battery test proves it isn't the V-Box II, as the battery is driving the motor, not the V-Box II, and you stated that it didn't move. When using a 12v battery it is slower, and so quieter.
I would suggest you listen to aceb, and check the 4 wires, as far as you can, to see if there is an obvious break, in the connections.
If you had easier access, to the dish, and motor, it would be easy to check everything, as all you have to do is remove the plastic cover, on the motor, put a different set of wires in the M1 and M2, connect them to a battery and observe if it moves, or not.

I have I did, most likely scenario is that the wires from the motor end have become disconnected. but I don't know ! it's a very old 15 year installation. I am personally not able to get up there to see the motor end

 

[Mickha]

It would be very unusual for the wires to become disconnected, as they are generally secured, within the motor. If the motor is 15 years old, and the wiring, then there are a number of possible problems, including general condition, with the wires either wearing out, birds, or other animals, damaging the wiring, the motor casing becoming damaged, again due to the weather, hot summers, cold winters, wind and rain, which could cause problems.
Either you can call out a satellite engineer, not generally a sky one, as they tend to know very little about motorized systems, or you get a friend/relative to help you.
The trick of taking a 12v battery, up to the motor, with some wires, is very easy, and quick, and will quickly answer a lot of questions.
If the motor moves, with new wires, then you know that the motor is working and you need the wiring replaced, if it doesn't then the motor needs repairing, or replacing.
Do you know the make/model of the motor?

 

[aceb]

Seeing as the thread hasn't been updated allow me. So I metered either end of the cable then manually turned the motor (Jaeger SMR 99G or similar) using the screw holding down the mag wheel. Everything checked out including the reed switch, voltage as expected at the motor end and the motor wasn't seized. The fault is a knackered bearing, judging by the lumps of metal that fell out of the cover and the smell it looks like it broke, jammed the motor which got very hot and stinky.

The Jaeger is still available around £100 but I've suggested to Dave he might want to take a chance on getting an 8" actuator from HM Sat for €25 and just swapping out the motor section where it fits onto the bevel gear attached to the dish mount. I've got one of the 8" actuators for elevation on my 1.8M and the size and appearance seem identical.

 

[jeallen01]

.....(Jaeger SMR 99G or similar) ... The Jaeger is still available around £100 but I've suggested to Dave he might want to take a chance on getting an 8" actuator from HM Sat for €25 and just swapping out the motor section where it fits onto the bevel gear attached to the dish mount. I've got one of the 8" actuators for elevation on my 1.8M and the size and appearance seem identical.

I think I've got a Jaeger 99 Gold in the garage - it came with the TD88 dish that I "rescued" from the local recycling centre about 12yrs ago, and so I don't know if it still works. However, you are welcome to have it to try out and then, if it works, I'm sure we can come to a mutually-agreeable "price" for it (which won't be a lot more than the cost of the carriage to send it to you!).

 

[Channel Hopper]

Normally the only difference once you check the driveshaft length is the diameter of the pin that rotates the gear in the main housing.

Take a picture as I have a couple of spares , I don't normally install small motors so I don't know how they came into my possession.

 

[aceb]

Thanks guys, I'll tag @sat-tv-fan so he can see your offers.

 

[jeallen01]

Just been down the garage and dug out the H-H motor - turns out it is a "Geotrack" (and thus not "Jaeger") "99 Gold"! Probably very similar to/a clone of the Jaeger one, and comes with the pole-mounting hardware.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Is the end of this (or similar )of any use ?