rebroadcasting of BBC signals etc

[jacko]

hi nokevin +carlos,
could you tell me what antennas you are using,
logorithmic,wideband digital or something different.
thanks.

 

[Carlos]

Hi Jacko

Our local installer is using a Log Periodic PL325 made by FR of Italy but it does not have quite enough gain for me as I am on the fringe of reception and therfore get an intermittent signal which is very frustrating, hence my interest in alternatives.

Carlos

 

[jacko]

thanks carlos,
i¨m going to order the logorithmic aerial first,
as they are only 11 euros.don¨t know if they
are any good ,seems a bit cheap.

 

[Carlos]

@rob, I know tecatel, but where do they have Microwave Antennas? They look a bit like WLAN Antennas except those are a bit smaller. If you do not live very close to the surce, it will be quite expensive.
If as you say they use digital, then its quite sophisticated, the "playoutcenter" is quite pricey and chances are good that they encrypt. Then your pids will do nothing. I seriously doubt that they charge 600euros plus a monthly charge if with a bit of know how you could just catch the signal.BUT, that said, I wish you good luck, just do´nt invest in equipment you can´t use later, that´s a real bummer. Btw, for less money you get a complete sky system (without bbc and itv in Teneriffe, except if you like a 3.80-4.2m Dish in your garden)

Hi Chris, this is really a follow up to my other postings on this whole subject of re-transmission and the more I read the more intriguing it gets! I have been told that although the frequencies are different for each transmitter they are nevertheless all microwave frequencies over 10GHz and mostly use log periodic antennas for reception. This fascinates me as the most commonly used antenna is a Band 4 & 5 covering the frequency range of 470 to 900 MHz which is of course well below 10GHz so is the type of antenna used not especially important and if not would a high gain Yagi such as the DAT45 work better in poor reception areas or is the 'balun' frequency matched and therefore rendering the Yagi useless (the Log Periodic does not need a 'balun' as its impedance is close to 75 ohm).

Also because there is no LNB to convert the signal to a lower frequency the signal from the antenna travels down the cable at its receiving frequency. As I understand it, the higher the frequency, the higher the cable loss and in fact this is the main reason the LNB converts the frequency to a lower one. Actually I think it 'chops off' about 9GHz so the ongoing signal is circa 1.5GHz. I am told the set top box software is modified to bypass this chopping but it makes the length of the receiving coax critical to receiving a good signal.

Any views to enlighten me, Carlos

 

[Carlos]

thanks carlos,
i¨m going to order the logorithmic aerial first,
as they are only 11 euros.don¨t know if they
are any good ,seems a bit cheap.

Hi Jacko

I have just read on the web that a good log periodic is frequency independant to a much greater degree than most other types of terrestial antenna and this is probably why they are used microwave re-transmission installers.

BFN, Carlos

 

[jacko]

hi everybody,
my mate has just had his system turned back on,
receiving bbc1,2 and itv 1 and sky news.
the german supplier told him no more legal problems
for at least 2 years,as it has been through the courts
and everything has been sorted.
aerial now pointing towards gomera.

 

[nokevin]

Yep all back on now, north and south. BUT for how long ???????????

 

[Big Al]

how longs a piece of string m8

 

[Zorba]

Still can't understand how its legal,don't you need permission/licence from local government to transmit,and does S*y allow this ? I only ask bcause this would be good in Cyprus.

 

[PoloMint]

From what I have heard and read about the "TV without frontiers" directive (or whatever it is called, which applies to all of europe) is that any TV signal that you can receive FTA you are allowed to watch, show to the public (eg in a bar) or retransmit freely.

Retransmit freely was restricted to frequency ranges you are allowed to use in the country you are in (so not on UHF/VHF in the UK etc) and freely also meant not encrypt and make a profit from. If the original broadcaster does not have the rights to broadcast their program in the second country it is not you the rebroadcaster that is at fault for showing the channel, but the initial broadcaster for showing the channels FTA in the second country at all.

Now that would make it look like the BBC channels can be rebroadcast legally, if you are using a legal frequency range and don’t make a profit from it.

But already that looks like the rebroadcasters are breaking the law by charging people a monthly subscription. However they may be able to pass that off as ‘equipment rent’ or something if the channels are still being broadcast FTA.

However the rebroadcasters cannot broadcast ITV/Ch4/Ch5 or any Sky channels, they are not FTA. There is no way of getting a card that will legally allow you to broadcast these channels abroad, ITV/Sky etc do not have the rights to broadcast their channels outside the UK, if they did they could post cards straight to subscribers in these countries.

How these rebroadcast networks have been given a legal status I don’t know, and would be interested to find out. It could be that the authorities were misinformed (by the rebroadcasters claiming that all the channels they were showing were FTA etc). It could be that the laws are very lapsed in some areas. It could be a brown envelope filled with notes arrived on the doorstep of an important person, or it could just be that the rebroadcasters are claiming that everything is now legal now when in fact nothing has changed.

If any of this is wrong please correct me, this is just taken from things I have come across now and then and may be outdated (or never correct). Also if anyone knows how these rebroadcasters claim to be doing it legally please let me know also.

Anyway rebroadcasting is a legal nightmare, unless you are very sure of what you are doing and the laws, or just want to run for as long as possible without getting caught, I would stay well away from it.

 

[Carlos]

Hi Polomint

I go along with most of what you say but would like to add that (as I understand it) there are many, many of these rebroadcasts taking place in Europe, in fact anywhere there are Brits and therefore its more than likely the same thing applies to other nationality ex-pats, its just that we don't know about it!

Clearly the whole system is open to "abuse" and it seems that as as long as nobody is "hurt" and the goverments in question do not lose taxation or licence revenue then they turn a blind eye as they are resource limited. Afterall what's in it for them, why should they carry on a "holy war" against small-time TV re-transmission companies just because (in my opinion) the copyright people everywhere refuse to move with the times. They are the both the cause of the problem and the solution to it so I have very little sympathy for them. To me its dead simple, I live in the European Community, pay my taxes etc and have the right of free choice and (for example) to buy my car (the same car) in the country of my choice (remember how the cat maker's fight to maintain the the then status quo). Only TV companies seem to flout this "free movement of goods & services", and mostly American companies at that who kick up fuss though applying different rules to themselves at home.

For myself I am willing to pay for the TV of my choice but the system does not facilitate it so like thousands of other ex-pats worldwide I am forced to resort to devious means.

The sooner the EU gets its act together the sooner there will be less re-transmission and do not forget that anyone with a "big dish & a Sky card" outside of the UK is committing exactly the same offence, the only difference is that with re-transmission one big dish is used to serve a number of people. The Teneriffe situation was quite different to most for several reasons and that is why the authorities acted, it should not be taken as an example of what is going to happen everywhere.

Finally as I understand it ITV, C4 & C5 although not FTA are "Free to View" and are not Sky channels, Sky merely act as Service Providers for them.

Anyway I'm getting off my soap box (for now) and will finish by asking the technical gurus to please answer the technical questions raised in this forum.

Carlos

 

[Carlos]

Still can't understand how its legal,don't you need permission/licence from local government to transmit,and does S*y allow this ? I only ask bcause this would be good in Cyprus.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by legal! Sky for one would say its not and cut-off the viewing card for being used outside of the UK on "Breach of Contract" grounds. Never mind the transmission license which depends on local requirements, don't forget that anyone using a Sky card outside the UK is in breach of the "Terms of Use" and from their (Sky's) perspective it matters not whether the programmes in question are "Free to View" or "Pay to View", as I said in another reply its all down to copyright agreements.

The BBC & other "Free to Air" programmes are another matter as no card is required and by definition if you can receive it you can watch it it. Different from ITV & C4 etc.

BFN, Carlos

 

[rolfw]

Re-transmission is always going to be a problem, just because a channel can be received free to air does not give anyone the right to re-transmit it without permission, if you are given a box of books, you cannot re-print them and sell them without the consent of the publisher.

There is a huge difference between a private individual receiving an out of area transmission and a re-broadcaster doing the same for profit. A small community of expatriate viewers operating a not for profit scheme would probably be overlooked, but as soon as you add the commercial element the original broadcaster is going to take action.

 

[Carlos]

Re-transmission is always going to be a problem, just because a channel can be received free to air does not give anyone the right to re-transmit it without permission, if you are given a box of books, you cannot re-print them and sell them without the consent of the publisher.

There is a huge difference between a private individual receiving an out of area transmission and a re-broadcaster doing the same for profit. A small community of expatriate viewers operating a not for profit scheme would probably be overlooked, but as soon as you add the commercial element the original broadcaster is going to take action.

I accept the principle of your arguement and your analogy with books is interesting because that is exactly what happens if there is a demand for a book that cannot be purchased legally. If you read your history books (no pun intended) you will know that in countries that have imposed restrictions on what can be read somebody has got hold of the book in demand and copied it for re-distribution and people have bought it.

However back to TV, if the original broadcasts could be received legiitimately and without technical obstacles placed in the way, my belief is that the demand for re-transmissions would cease. Most people are willing to pay for the TV service of their choice but at present can't do so because of the way the broadcasters/copyright holders operate. In any case the more reputable of the re-broadcasters would undoubtadly argue that they are only seeking to recover their investment by way of a modest charge for the service.

It's time the TV companies wokeup, got their act together and moved into the 21st century. The carmakers and others have had to do so and in many cases TV is a public service so there is even less justification for their current attitude which is wholly monopolistic and unnacceptable.

Mark my words, things will change, it's just a matter of time, possibly a long time unfortunately and in the meantime re-broadcasting will continue.

Carlos

 

[enoc]

BTW...anybody knows the new frecuencys and pids?¿

 

[radioscanner]

Hi,

If anyone is still interested I just looked at a setup in Benidorm, BBC1,BBC2,ITV, SKY MOVIES 1&2, SKY SPORTS 1&2, UK GOLD, LIVING ETC ABOUT 30 CHANNELS IN ALL.

The signals are being re-transmitted from the Hotel Bali in La cala de Benidorm

The box in use is a digital terestrial receiver like this one - http://www.coship.com/english/products/cdvbc5120.htm

There are 5 transponders starting at around allocation S30, 374MHZ and up

Irdeto encryption with viewing card is used.

Antenna is a concaved mesh and a tiny horizontel dipole with preamp.

If anyone has any more info please let me know.
Did anyone here manage to figure out the analog sytem. which Im led to beleive is also in use but not encrypted.?

John

ps. theres another similar thread going on here-
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=160194

 

[radioscanner]

While im here I thought I would mention that the Costa Blanca company rebroadcasting BBC/ ITV Sky etc apparently allready have 45,000 customers in Torrevieja alone each paying 20 euros per month! work it out for yourself.

(and dont forget the 600 euro charge for the equiment)

 

[paulkelly]

hi folks

live in fuerteventura
i live within 500 metres of transmitter
a friend has got the strong 4155 box and can receive with any arial
have got a fortec 5100c and this box with pic up frequency of broadcast but will not sort the channels out
i am certain its just a case of getting pids right but not sure
anyone got more up to date info on this subject???
please reply

 

[jacko]

hi,
with the strong 4155,go into menu,and system information,
enter the pin number,should be 1004,you can then find the
pids,good luck.

 

[paulkelly]

cheers mate