Advice Needed Supporting Mast

[A Lancashire Lad]

Understood, have you got a simple cheap plastic protractor ?, get on your pc and find a satellite "Elevation Finder" program, and enter your location co-ordinates, add a 12" ruler onto your protractor and sight through it towards your chosen satellite and see if it's got a clean line of sight or best view possible.
A cheap and cheerful way to see if you can clear any of your surrounding obstacles ..... it'll put you roughly in the right ball park.
.

I'll get it on the pole and play around with it, I've got access to an Horizon HDSM USB+ meter which will make life easier

 

[satelliteman]

Thanks will keep you updated as I go hopefully I'll try a get the dish up tomorrow while the weathers fine
the top K is actually 5 courses down theirs a couple more courses of brick hidden by the shadow.

That's good. Seen far too many brackets mounted on the 1st / 2nd course down.

 

[archive10]

It would be nice to mount at ground level but would not be able to get much further than 28.2E due to fence and next door shrubs

That was for illustration purposes.
Raising the dishes up generally gives better range, so you should indeed put them where you are going to.

(Exception is for when neighbours or spouses start complaining - some (like @timo_w2s) have found it necessary to mount them low down in flower beds.)

 

[archive10]

The garden wall and next doors shrubs would be a problem. You've got me worried know now with the motor how long ago did you buy the motor? hopefully it was just a firmware issue that has been resolved in either the VU+ box or the motor and that they have fixed it. As far as I know the only difference in the two motors is that the supreme has the LED display. Anyway I'll try a test fit at various heights and see how I go, if it does work ok lower down I may have to mount the 60cm dish on its own bracket.

Nothing works like a good "try-it-and-see" - that's what a lot of this hobby is about.

Meanwhile, I've dabbled into GIMP, the advanced image editor that allows me to do crude crayon-style photoshop-jobs.
I've tried to illustrate your 60 cm dish at the bottom (yellow), and the 90 above (red) on the dark motor (orange).
And more importantly, the signal paths. Remember, the sgnal path is to all intents and purposes a tube (in blue) pointing at a slight angle upwards from the reflector of the dish.
I assume that the 60cm will be fixed at something suitable like Freesat/28.xE.



My point is; that the dishes to not interfere if the signal path (tube reaching out to satellite) of the lower dish is clear of the upper dish.
And even if it isn't - a 60cm pointed at 28.xE will not miss much in case the LNB arm of the 90cm wanders into view.
As an example, here's an installation from my summer cottage; the top TD64 (5W) sits partially in the signal path of the lower (5E) - but we still have full Viasat from 5E in all weather conditions!

 

[Channel Hopper]

Nothing works like a good "try-it-and-see" - that's what a lot of this hobby is about.

Meanwhile, I've dabbled into GIMP, the advanced image editor that allows me to do crude crayon-style photoshop-jobs.

View attachment 98712

Can't spot any genitalia in the image, so it's not crude enough.

The o/p could install one further k bracket low on the wall and a 3+m scaffold, then it wouldnt matter how far above the guttering the dish goes.

Sods law confirms that as soon as you decide on a final build, another low elevation satellite will be launched that is just out of reach.

 

[jeallen01]

@LL
I bought my motor earlier this year (March-April IIRC) and so it was fairly recently - and it appears to be a motor-specific problem as it appeared to not be receiver-specific and so any fix would have to be for the motor. Don't know if that has happened, and you will have to try yours out to find out if something has been done. If it does not work then I would contact your supplier, pointing out the known issue (I can give you the contact details of the person who told of the problem, and he was almost immediately clear what it was - PM me if you need the details), and request an exchange for the Superior version or a refund.

Anyway, I think there is little if any real advantage from the Supreme version, and it's a pain to have to get up behind the motor to see the display and then press the E&W buttons to adjust the 0 degrees setting - I know because that's what I found out!

 

[jeallen01]

@LL

A further thought about the mast itself - could you add a 2nd length of mast tubing bracketed to the mainmast but mounted behind the dish, close to the top T&K and bridging it, with clamps above and below the latter? The brackets could consist 2 of the same U-bolt fixings as used with the T&K on each mast tube, and with these joined by a stiff piece of steel with holes drilled at the appropriate points - you can find that sort of stuff in the building materials sections of most B&Qs.

That would make a much stiffer parallelogram structure and (probably) stop the upper part of the main tubing moving (much).

PS: the close-up of the clamp shown in your first post looks very like a good old vehicle exhaust clamp! You can buy these from many places like exhaust-fitting outlets and factors like ECP and GSF!

 

[A Lancashire Lad]

@LL
I bought my motor earlier this year (March-April IIRC) and so it was fairly recently - and it appears to be a motor-specific problem as it appeared to not be receiver-specific and so any fix would have to be for the motor. Don't know if that has happened, and you will have to try yours out to find out if something has been done. If it does not work then I would contact your supplier, pointing out the known issue (I can give you the contact details of the person who told of the problem, and he was almost immediately clear what it was - PM me if you need the details), and request an exchange for the Superior version or a refund.

Anyway, I think there is little if any real advantage from the Supreme version, and it's a pain to have to get up behind the motor to see the display and then press the E&W buttons to adjust the 0 degrees setting - I know because that's what I found out!

How did the fault manifest its self. Have got the motor on the pole can move it East & West with the buttons but motor is not responding to the receiver the screen shows that the motor should be moving. tried with Duo2 and Ibox2 same

 

[jeallen01]

)@LL

Pretty much the same problem as you appear to be having! Tried many times over several days but the receiver could never actually make the mount/dish move.

"Supreme" = sod all useless in reality.

VUPlus UK (which claims to be the sole UK/Eire importer of VU+ products - don't know about the actual motor but it could be some other company) told me about the Linux issue- they are located at:

VUPLUS UK LTD, 100 Colindeep Lane, NW9 6HB, Support Line : 02076244876, Mr Julian Mob : 07501911175

Contact email is 'vuplusuk@gmail.com'

 

[A Lancashire Lad]

I found a 2" clamp on ebay which I hope will do the job of fixing the braces to mast
The clamp shown is of no use it's 50mm Scaf pole is 48mm want clamp on to pole

 

[Channel Hopper]

VUPlus UK (which claims to be the sole UK/Eire importer of VU+ products - don't know about the actual motor but it could be some other company) told me about the Linux issue- they are located at:

VUPLUS UK LTD, 100 Colindeep Lane, NW9 6HB, Support Line : 02076244876, Mr Julian Mob : 07501911175

Odd looking shop front

Google Maps

 

[jeallen01]

CH

Yes it is - actually it's a well-hidden part of a small building at the back of a small industrial estate, with a single, and not well marked, entrance door. However, Julian was very helpful (although it took several emails and phone calls before he initially responded) when I took my motor (bought from them via eBay) back there and demonstrated that the Superior motor worked fine with my Solo2 - I was in and out of there in less than 30 mins, and the new motor still worked fine when I got it home and mounted it on the mast.

PS: now have my own new woes - bought a cheap 2nd hand TV/monitor for use in our bedroom/office to do the receivers setup but that died within a few hours. So then ordered a new BenQ HDMI/DVI/VGA 22" monitor from Amazon to replace it - that arrived yesterday but has turned out to have only the VGA input working, thus no working DVI or HDMI inputs. :-( Reported that to Amazon about an hour ago and the replacement will arrive tomorrow - hopefully the new one WILL work properly!

 

[A Lancashire Lad]

Hi All been an eventful day I was going uploaded some pics showing how things progressed till the motor issue reared it's ugly head

I did have another 12 or so lines of text here but for some reason the page refreshed and wiped the lot Not got time to rewrite now playing around the F in motor which appears to be working as it should.
Will update tomorrow once i reassemble every I've had enough for today
Just one quick question.
When I move the motor say to 70 east or west using goto x it overshoots and go to 77.4 does the extra motor options turning step size need to be altered?
goto 0 is fine

 

[jeallen01]

@LL

With the motor now working, how did you figure out what was wrong?

 

[Channel Hopper]

When I move the motor say to 70 east or west using goto x it overshoots and go to 77.4 does the extra motor options turning step size need to be altered?
goto 0 is fine

How do you know it is exactly 77.4 ?

Any dish in the UK is pointing below the horizon at this number

 

[A Lancashire Lad]

How do you know it is exactly 77.4 ?

Any dish in the UK is pointing below the horizon at this number

Because the supreme motor has a display on it and can be seen also with the pointer on the the rotating arm.

I know I'm not able to pick up any satellites at that position.

I had the motor on the floor testing it as when I originally set the motor dish up it failed to work so took it down to test
When ever I send the motor east or west by the Duo2 the arm always overshoots the point at which it should stop at. the further east or west the greater the overshoot
I can control the motor rotation by the East West buttons on the motor I've setup thor 1w and astra 28.2e and pick up the satellites ok

I assume if the the satellite receiver moves to say astra 28.2 the motor should move to 28.2 on the arm pointer does would the lon / lat setting effect the arm movement

 

[jeallen01]

@LL
From your 3rd para, the motor not working up the mast sounds like a wiring issue for the cable up the mast - although that was not my problem (the replacement Superior motor worked fine on the same cables/connections).

Is the dish fitted to the motor at the moment as the motor would be under less mechanical load if it is not (should not cause that overshoot unless, possibly, there is a lot of play in the motor drive train)?
OTOH, the overshooting could be another symptom of the motor not working to correctly interpret the positioning signals coming from the receiver(??)

Good job you did not find this all out with the motor/dish right at the top of the mast!!

 

[A Lancashire Lad]

@LL
From your 3rd para, the motor not working up the mast sounds like a wiring issue for the cable up the mast - although that was not my problem (the replacement Superior motor worked fine on the same cables/connections).

Is the dish fitted to the motor at the moment as the motor would be under less mechanical load if it is not (should not cause that overshoot unless, possibly, there is a lot of play in the motor drive train)?
OTOH, the overshooting could be another symptom of the motor not working to correctly interpret the positioning signals coming from the receiver(??)

Good job you did not find this all out with the motor/dish right at the top of the mast!!

The cabling fine put it all together and had it up the pole again today luckily we are only talking about 8ft of the ground. set it all up again the motor ran this time. but kept overshooting the position it should have stop at. If I used the manual buttons on the dish and the display I aligned Thor 1w and Astra 28.2e. Didn't bother going any further. Using the receiver goto x it's not stopping at 1w or 28.2e. keeps overshooting
So dish is in the garage again while I decide who's motor to buy as a replacement, lost all faith in Alsat especially as there are no contact details in the manual for tech support
Looking at a Jaeger / Moteck SG-2500A

 

[A Lancashire Lad]

Nothing works like a good "try-it-and-see" - that's what a lot of this hobby is about.

Meanwhile, I've dabbled into GIMP, the advanced image editor that allows me to do crude crayon-style photoshop-jobs.
I've tried to illustrate your 60 cm dish at the bottom (yellow), and the 90 above (red) on the dark motor (orange).
And more importantly, the signal paths. Remember, the sgnal path is to all intents and purposes a tube (in blue) pointing at a slight angle upwards from the reflector of the dish.
I assume that the 60cm will be fixed at something suitable like Freesat/28.xE.

View attachment 98712

My point is; that the dishes to not interfere if the signal path (tube reaching out to satellite) of the lower dish is clear of the upper dish.
And even if it isn't - a 60cm pointed at 28.xE will not miss much in case the LNB arm of the 90cm wanders into view.
As an example, here's an installation from my summer cottage; the top TD64 (5W) sits partially in the signal path of the lower (5E) - but we still have full Viasat from 5E in all weather conditions!

View attachment 98715

Thats how I intend to install them once I got this bloody motor issue sorted out

 

[archive10]

Thats how I intend to install them once I got this bloody motor issue sorted out

Good.
My point was that you don't have to put the motor at the top of the mast, only at a height where the dish just clears the signal cone of the 60cm.
The further down the mast you put the motor, the more rigid the mast will be.
Try it, and see.
You may not need the support bracket...