Tivusat Hotbird 13E problems

[Sjohnson]

Hi everyone!

Have some trouble with my Tivusat Italian TV set up on Hotbird 13E and looking for some advice.

Bought a 60cm dish and Tivusat box for my house in Kent and had it installed by a local aerial company. All was working fine, but a few hours after the guy left, the Italian channels all started to be glitchy and unwatchable. Yet, all the Arabic channels are fine (eg: Alalam HD). Getting a signal quality of about 43% across all channels, including Arabic and Italian.

Guy came back and moved something - and still the same. All Italian channels unwatchable but Arabic ones fine.

Is there a problem with the dish set up, do you think? The guy who fitted it thinks it's the dish or the LNB - I just find it strange it all worked ok at the beginning, then stopped. But all the Arabic channels are OK but not the Italian. Any help or advice gratefully received!

 

[Analoguesat]

43% signal strength seems rather low to me. You want it up in to 80s for reliable reception.

At a guess the sky was clear when the guy installed the dish - and either it clouded over or it started raining? Personally Id say you need an 80 cm dish for reliable reception. Alternatively - ws it a proper satellite contractor? If the skew (twist of the lnb) isnt set correctly that can kill the signal. Looking at the dish the lnb soulb be twisted round slightly so the cable coming out the bottom is round towards the "7oclock" position

 

[a33]

Welcome to the forum, Sjohnson!

Just checking: Also bad reception at Rai Storia and Rai Scuola, at frequency 10992 V?
That frequency should be not too difficult, to receive, I guess.
( Hot Bird 13B / Hot Bird 13C / Hot Bird 13E (13°E) - All transmissions - frequencies - KingOfSat gives all the frequencies and channels.)

So if reception at that frequency is good, then I would also first think that you might not have signal quality enough for the other italian channels, as Analoguesat suggested as a cause. So that we can check further on that path...

Greetz,
A33

 

[Sjohnson]

Thanks for your replies and considered advice. Just to answer your questions...
Yes, he's a satellite engineer by trade.
Weirdly, I've looked Into different channels further and whilst I'm getting around 43% signal quality on pretty much all channels, there are some Italian channels which are perfect, and not stuttery at all, Including:

Rai 3 TGR Valle D'Aosta at 11013
Rai Gulp HD at 11013
Rai Yoyo HD at 11013
...sensing a pattern here!

Rai Storia HD at 10992 is not watchable.
Rai Scuola not even picked up in the EPG?!

 

[Analoguesat]

Probably an lnb issue. 11013 is horizontal polarity. 10992 is vertical polarity

Your issue is strange as 10992V fec 2/3 should be received better than 11013H fec 3/4. (Low fecs are easier to receiver than high ones).

Some receivers are "deaf" on certain lnbs - its certainly worth swapping the lnb for a different one and see if it makes a difference

 

[7mdish]

I believe that your unique problem is that your signal is too weak due to small dish. We know that Hotbird delivers very strong signals, but 60cm is the weakest possible dish diameter, probably not enough in your area. I would try with a dish a little bit larger, say 80cm, and I'm pretty sure that you will solve all your issues. Good luck.

 

[Analoguesat]

FWIW I use a 1m dish in the Scottish Borders to get full signals from 13E. Anything smaller leaves me with frequencies missing

 

[Sjohnson]

Thanks for all your help. I will work through your suggestions re: LNB and dish. Determined to make this work!
Weirdly enough, this afternoon, same problems with stuttering.
Tonight everything is absolutely fine - every channel working perfectly. I haven't touched anything at all. Getting around 43% quality. Anyone know why this would be the case? Weather?

 

[Adam792]

I think the 60cm dish should be OK, even if there's not much rain margin on a couple of the transponders.

I say that because I'm in Gloucestershire and have 13°E as a (slightly misaligned) offset LNB on a Zone 2 sky dish. I've just tried 10992V and it's giving me over 10dB SNR, which is a fair amount of margin. Similar story with 11766H (Rai 1-3 HD).

You have a similar sized dish which is pointing directly at the satellite so you should easily get at least a couple more dB of signal than I am, which would easily be in the 70-80% signal quality range on most receivers.

Has it been sunny today there, maybe the heat is affecting a faulty LNB? Especially if it's working OK now the sun's going down.

 

[mike1]

Maybe you need a better Lnb
Could be 4G / LTE interference

 

[a33]

The constant 43% signal quality level, for all channels, regardless of normal or bad reception, seems a bit strange, I would say.
Because 'signal strength' is often rather constant, but signal quality is not, as far as I know (and I don't know everything!).
And I don't know your receiver. Sure that it is the quality level, that is given?

When you sometimes have perfect reception on ALL channels, then sometimes bad reception on SOME channels (but not just the weakest channels!), I'd think of a contact problem somewhere. Inside the LNB, in the cable, or in the receiver, cannot tell.
If the bad reception has a pattern, e.g. just the vertical channels, then I would first suspect the LNB.
Otherwise, the cable might be a suspect. Have you tried, while the problem occurs, if 'shaking' the cables a bit causes a difference in reception?

Alas, a non-permanent problem is usually difficult to diagnose...

Do you have a spare receiver, that you can test your dish+cable installation on?
Do you have a spare cable, that you can use for testing?
Can you test your receiver on another dish-installation?

Greetz,
A33

 

[Sjohnson]

Thanks for your contributions!
I have the Tele System 9018 box.
Signal strength on pretty much all channels is showing at 85% or there abouts, whereas quality is between 37-55% on different channels.

I have delved deeper and can confirm all channels on Horizontal frequencies are working perfectly (even those with low low quality. One example is Cielo at 12207H2900 where I have quality of 28% but no issues with watching it at all).

The vertical channels are all problematic - either stuttery or nothing received at all. But not consistent! For example, absolutely all channels working perfectly last night but not yesterday afternoon.

In the dish settings, when I select LNB power supply, I can set it to Auto and issues remain.

Set to 18V, only the H channels work.
Set it to 13V, and no channels work. The settings even show 13V to have no signal strength and no signal quality). 13v just looks dead.

Does this all point to an LNB issue rather than a satellite or receiver issue? I hope so as that would be an easy fix!

 

[Adam792]

Thanks for your contributions!
I have the Tele System 9018 box.
Signal strength on pretty much all channels is showing at 85% or there abouts, whereas quality is between 37-55% on different channels.

I have delved deeper and can confirm all channels on Horizontal frequencies are working perfectly (even those with low low quality. One example is Cielo at 12207H2900 where I have quality of 28% but no issues with watching it at all).

The vertical channels are all problematic - either stuttery or nothing received at all. But not consistent! For example, absolutely all channels working perfectly last night but not yesterday afternoon.

In the dish settings, when I select LNB power supply, I can set it to Auto and issues remain.

Set to 18V, only the H channels work.
Set it to 13V, and no channels work. The settings even show 13V to have no signal strength and no signal quality). 13v just looks dead.

Does this all point to an LNB issue rather than a satellite or receiver issue? I hope so as that would be an easy fix!

It does sound like it could be an LNB problem.

Do you have any other satellite tuner you could try to rule out problems with the box? What TV do you have? I'm thinking if it's a newer one a lot of them have an in-built satellite tuner - it would have a satellite screw-on F connector socket alongside the regular TV aerial input if it does.

 

[a33]

In the dish settings, when I select LNB power supply, I can set it to Auto and issues remain.
Set to 18V, only the H channels work.
Set it to 13V, and no channels work. The settings even show 13V to have no signal strength and no signal quality). 13v just looks dead.

Good delving!
So, the indication of signal strength and signal quality is dead when set to 13 V;
but not dead, when set to AUTO while tuned to vertical channels?

That worries me a bit; I'd think that maybe somehow not enough power reaches the LNB (or the LNB needing relatively much power)?
Do you have a 'normal' (legacy) LNB, or maybe a hybrid?

To rule out a cable issue: could you test your receiver at the dish, with a short (spare) cable?
How long is your cable, by the way? When the cable is long ( >20 meter): is it pure copper, or CCS (Copper Cladded Steel)? (Is a type nr written on it?)

Greetz,
A33

 

[Sjohnson]

Fingers crossed that's what it is!

Unfortunately I don't have another satellite tuner nor a TV with that capability. Living in the dark ages a little!

I'm beginning to think it might be gremlins!
Everything is working OK this morning, both V and H channels.

But still the indication remains -
When LNB set to Auto, there is indication of signal strength and quality when tuned to a Vertical channel. And the same values in quality and signal when set to 18v (even on V Channels?). But when LNB set to 13v, no values showing at all - just 0%.

Just confusing as there are some rare moments of the day, now included, when you'd think everything is OK. I'm hoping this means it's not the receiver...

I've got the guy coming back to replace the LNB this week...

The dish is on the chimney of my 2 floor house, and the cable runs all the way down the front of the house to the bottom floor coming in at the living room.

The cable has some writing on it:
Webro PVC class ECA - if that helps?!

 

[Sjohnson]

Fingers crossed that's what it is!

Unfortunately I don't have another satellite tuner nor a TV with that capability. Living in the dark ages a little!

I'm beginning to think it might be gremlins!
Everything is working OK this morning, both V and H channels.

But still the indication remains -
When LNB set to Auto, there is indication of signal strength and quality when tuned to a Vertical channel. And the same values in quality and signal when set to 18v (even on V Channels?). But when LNB set to 13v, no values showing at all - just 0%.

Just confusing as there are some rare moments of the day, now included, when you'd think everything is OK. I'm hoping this means it's not the receiver...

I've got the guy coming back to replace the LNB this week...

The dish is on the chimney of my 2 floor house, and the cable runs all the way down the front of the house to the bottom floor coming in at the living room.

The cable has some writing on it:
Webro PVC class ECA - if that helps?!

Spoke too soon. Gremlins back on V channels and signal quality jumping around!

 

[7mdish]

You could ask to your guys to perform a deep test using a meter. Do you know if they have a meter? I think so if they are working in dish installations. Using a meter it would be so easy to identify the issue. However, I'm convinced that 60cm dish is too small for a good and stable satellite reception, particularly during rain and wet time. But it could be a faulty LNB, too. So you could replace the LNB at first, and maybe replace the dish later if you want.

 

[a33]

The cable has some writing on it:
Webro PVC class ECA - if that helps?!

Google search gives "copper/copper" for the webro wf100, for core and shield. If that is the one, it should be good!

 

[jeallen01]

Google search gives "copper/copper" for the webro wf100, for core and shield. If that is the one, it should be good!

Correct: Webro WF100 has a copper core, a wrapped thin copper shield and a woven copper sheath. There are also several other types of cables with similar construction, but I've had problems with at least one (CPC-Farnell's own brand) that had a very brittle copper shield that tore very easily if folded back over the insulation over the core - thus one has to be aware that not all "copper/copper/copper" cables are "made equal".

OTOH, if the installation was done with generic "satellite cable" then "anything goes" and it could well have a copper-coated steel or aluminium core, aluminium shield and woven aluminium sheath - that stuff is definitely depricated for satellite installations because it is prone to internal breakages &/or corrosion due to moisture/water ingress.

PS: this old but still current page on the moribund Satcure website gives some interesting and useful info on some common satellite cables - and, as I'd already pdf'd that for my own use, I've attached the latter in case anyone else would find it useful

 

[Sjohnson]

Happy to report it was the LNB. Quick replacement and we are all systems go. The 60cm dish was big enough in the SE of England, thankfully, even in yesterday's awful rain! On 100% strength and at least 70% quality which is a massive improvement. Thanks All your advice!