tve uhd

pipino

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So let me get this straight? They're going to place six UHD services on one DVB-T (not DVB-T2) using h.264 compression?

Even using DVB-T at its most fragile (64 QAM, COFDM = 8K, GI=1/32 & FEC = 7/8 that gives a net bit rate of 31.668 Mbps, meaning that slotting six UHD video streams into there will give them an average bitrate of less than 5 Mbps each - that's barely enough for decent 1080i/p video at that bitrate using h.264 compression, let alone scaling that up to UHD.

Unless there'a already a large base of receivers/televisions that can already deal with UHD MPEG4/h.264 DTT reception in Spain, surely a better idea would be to adopt DVB-T2 for the multiplex & use either HEVC or even the newer VVC codec (though I don't think VVC is in use for broadcasting anywhere right now, whereas HEVC has been adopted) for video compression. Time will tell.
checking the TDTSAT Televes ZAS HD STB datasheet will give us some hints of what is possible and what is not
 

pipino

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Latest news from mundoplus.tv

Aprovechando que el sistema de compresión MPEG4/H264 es el mismo utilizado para las emisiones realizadas en UHD o 4K, el Gobierno da un paso adelante y autoriza a RTVE a emitir 2 canales simulcast de sus canales en HD, así como al grupo Atresmedia y al grupo Mediaset a emitir dos canales UHD cada uno.

De esta forma, RTVE emitirá los canales La1 UHD y Teledeporte UHD. En el caso de Atresmedia, los canales serán Antena 3 UHD y laSexta UHD, y Mediaset emitirá Telecinco UHD y Cuatro UHD. Estos canales emitirán de forma simultanea a las versiones en Alta Definición.


so the RGE 2 multiplex will be in MPEG4/H264 And will contain 6 UHD channels! That is incredible news!
La 1 UHD - RTVE
Teledeporte UHD - RTVE

Antena3 UHD -ATRESMEDIA
LaSexta UHD - ATRESMEDIA

Cuatro UHD - MEDIASET
Telecinco UHD - MEDIASET

source “mundoplus.tv”

I was wondering if that is even possible with the available bandwidth on one multiplex when the HEVC codec won’t be used.
If this is true it will be a Giant leap forward for the future of DVB-T competing against streaming platforms.
mundoplus_tv is not a reliable source! https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2023/12/28/pdfs/BOE-S-2023-310.pdf ,, i´v checked the BOE and there is nothing about the subject
 

Pride Of Cucamonga

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So let me get this straight? They're going to place six UHD services on one DVB-T (not DVB-T2) using h.264 compression?

Even using DVB-T at its most fragile (64 QAM, COFDM = 8K, GI=1/32 & FEC = 7/8 that gives a net bit rate of 31.668 Mbps, meaning that slotting six UHD video streams into there will give them an average bitrate of less than 5 Mbps each - that's barely enough for decent 1080i/p video at that bitrate using h.264 compression, let alone scaling that up to UHD.

Unless there'a already a large base of receivers/televisions that can already deal with UHD MPEG4/h.264 DTT reception in Spain, surely a better idea would be to adopt DVB-T2 for the multiplex & use either HEVC or even the newer VVC codec (though I don't think VVC is in use for broadcasting anywhere right now, whereas HEVC has been adopted) for video compression. Time will tell.

Lol, this is so Spain
 

hexah

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I was wondering when someone would try to make a dtt UHD mux. The 4k frame is four 1080 frames, so how will they squeeze the data into a dynamic 4-7 Mbps stream?

h.266 is the latest and greatest but no real development or improvement yet. The patent pool seems to be a problem, again.

h.265 is supposed to be the main choice but patent pool problems have meant there is not enough development and not enough effort on libre open alternatives.

h.264 has had a huge amount of development because "h.262" MPEG was awful. There is a good libre offering x264. The work has been on encoding efficiency, and on processing the image before presenting it to the encoder.

So perhaps it can be made to work with h.264 at level 5.1 with a lot of preprocessing the input giving an output which is soft and similar to the look of 0.6 to 1.0 Mbps h.264 broadcasts found on dtt in some countries.

Add marketing crap and rake in the money?!?
 

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One thing I noticed recently in setting back up a Ka Band LNB for Saorsat reception is that the bitrate for the RTÉ 1 & RTÉ 2 HD broadcasts on the platform is being starved of bits - the video for both channels is running at a bitrate at around half of that (if not less) than both station have on Saorview (Irish DTT). The DTT versions of the channels are running on a video bitrate of around 5-6 Mbps while their Saorsat equivalents are around 2.2-2.6 Mbps (both platforms broadcast the channels with 1440 x 1080 pixels)

The thing is that to the casual eye looking at both channels on Saorsat it is apparent that both channels are in HD as the DOGs, captions as well as areas of strong contrasting detail look sharp - however it is areas of finer detail that get lost. This is apparent when switching between the Saorsat source and the DTT source & comparing the two. The bitrate reduction on Saorsat seems to have happened around the time three years or so ago when the parameters were changed that cut the symbol rate in half while only changing the FEC from 2/3 to 5/6 (modulation remained QPSK). I'd guess that since hardly anyone seems to be dependent on Saorsat anywhere in Ireland, north or south, squeezing the bitrate on the two HD channels is a test technical exercise by 2RN (the Irish business that is a part of RTÉ that is responsible for both Saorsat & DTT broadcasts) to see what they can squeeze with MPEG4 tech.

Given the above in mind, maybe that's the thinking behind using MPEG4 video for UHD and predicting that they can get away with a video bandwidth of 5 Mbps or so per video channel? Time will tell, though it still seems awfully low - AFAIK the German DTT (Freenet) stations broadcast in 1080p50 have a rough video bandwidth of ~3 Mpbs using H.265 and scaling that up to UHD you would expect to round that up to 8-12 Mbps, let alone 5-6 Mbps?
 

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According to the plan, two regional multiplexes on 11347H were switched from SD to HD today
30W_SD_to_HD.jpg30W_11347H_2308.png30W_11347H_2302.png
 

pipino

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EnoSat

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higher
 

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any know if sd close on dtt in spain from yesterday ?
next week add uhd
 

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any know if sd close on dtt in spain from yesterday ?
next week add uhd
No there are some problems with celnexx telecom for the closure of SD channels.

Normally in the morning of 6 februari the sd channels would close.
After that in the moring of 7 februari the RGE 1 and RGE2 muxes would be reorganised. tv channel "CLAN" will transfer to RGE 1, completely clearing the RGE 2 mux.
After the RGE 2 mux is cleared tv channel La 1 UHD would start broadcasting on that mux.

Seems like they got into a little bit of trouble (for some unknown reason). Today at 12 o clock would La 1 UHD start officialy broadcasting on the RGE2 mux.

But at this moment the sd channels are still on air. so La 1 UHD can only broadcast on the test mux to a limited audience in Spain.

We don't know how long it is going to take for the sd channels to properly close.

i've been recording the ts stream of la2 sd so i could see the channel close but it didn't yesterday morning, neither did it close this morning...

We don't know what's happening. on la 1 sd they now show the picture of la 1 HD downscaled to sd format...

I guess it has something to do with PID's and SID's of the HD channels that are shared with the SD channels wich makes closing the SD channels a problem for transmitting the HD channels properly. (the teletext function for example)
 

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You can watch the inauguration of La 1 UHD on rtve play at 12 o clock (spanish mainland time) today.
Maybe they will give a litle bit more information about the delays and problems.
 

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Stevenvc19

thanks for info keep info about afternoon more info
and 15 febuary will be more channel
as far i know
 

Stevenvc19

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La1 UHD wille be broadcasting on RGE2 "in the next days" no specific date is mentioned on te press conference.
 

pipino

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probably 15/02 as planned initially
 

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RTVE made some advertising on their channels La 1 and La 2 that from tomorrow La 1 UHD will start broadcasting for real.
 

pipino

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Yeah i did see that , i am monitoring RGE2 closely tonight
 

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