Using the "138MHz-4.4GHz USB SMA Source/Signal Generator/Simple Spectrum Analyzer" for TV/CATV/SAT

vma

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Does your programme use the default transponder frequencies of the satellite (by which I mean the Boeing/Hughes/Astrium) maufacturer ? If yes then each of these has a specific beacon frequency which would - even without having the data that goes with it - identify the bird from the others above the installation.
With many orbital slots containing more than one satellite, it 'should' be relatively easy to script something that provides the user a position by combining the beacon frequencies found in the initial search.

Can you post a picture of the spectrum, pointing out the beacon frequency? I know little about beacon frequencies! Could you elaborate?

Thanks!

Vitor
 

jeallen01

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The problem with this approach is that every one of us lives in different geographic regions, hence with a different coverage map!

People in Germany can hardly receive the BBC beam from Astra2.
People in Portugal find it hard to get certain transponders easily received in Germany.
And so on...

That is exactly the problem with the *.ini files! They are not wrong per se (apart from containing some garbage transponders, occasionally) - they just contain ALL transponders of a satellite, including the ones one annot locally receive with the current equipment.
,
Vitor

OOPs - had forgotten about the "little matter" of varying beam and coverage issues for different people looking at the same satellite - as you say, it would then become a very difficult and time-consuming task and so please ignore my suggestion!:(
 

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Can you post a picture of the spectrum, pointing out the beacon frequency? I know little about beacon frequencies! Could you elaborate?

Thanks!

Vitor

Clicking on each of the satellite names from this list

Satbeams - World Of Satellites at your fingertips

gives you - for example, Eutelsat 3B - this

Satbeams - World Of Satellites at your fingertips

Beacon(s): 11200.2, 11699.8 RHCP or LHCP


The manufacturer will often (but not always) provide the transponder frequency data before launch, but this can be adjusted slightly once operational.
 

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Can you post a picture of the spectrum, pointing out the beacon frequency? I know little about beacon frequencies! Could you elaborate?

Thanks!

Vitor

Vitor

Quick search for "satellite beacon signal" gave this satsignal.net page: Satellite beacon frequencies with the beacon transponder info for some of the main satellites, but not many of the others.

However, a little bit of further searching for the regions of interest should uncover the rest of them
 

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Great work Vitor, I will send for one, this is a great tool :)

This list should help

GS Satellites Europe

Its kept up to date by @Feedsat_DXer and others, feedsat maybe able to point you to other up to date lists :)
 

vma

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This picture shows one problem:

I changed my software, so that transponders without match on identified satellite are marked in red. Hispasat has a poor detection rating of just 53% of the transponders recognized in the spectrum.

Two of them are 11654MHz H-H and 11678MHz H-H. They are drawn in red, which means, they don't appear in the 0330.ini file for Hispasat.

Am I doing something wrong? I checked Lyngsat and those transponders are not listed!

I started EBSPro with my other bigger dish (thats why signal power is different) and those two transponders are found! My software detected them correctly.

BUT: They are DATA transponders, which are not included in the *.ini files!

Anyway, the new feature showing unmatched transponders in red is great to find feeds or otherwise unreported transponders!

Regards,
Vitor

01.png
 

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The beacons are like drops of water in the sea.
When the Astra 1N and the position Astra2G were moved, as they were not broadcast, they could see the beacons and perform a good satellite tracking.

It is already your job position and working normally. Are very difficult to see, you usually leave your eyes.
This photo I think is from Feedsat_DXer (apologies if it is not correct) with his crew of "fishing" of the Astra 2G as it passes through 23.5E way of its final position.
The same photo from Madrid with Rover SRM-50.

2G Beacon 11710.50_at_23.5E.png
Beacom_11710H.jpg
2G Beacon 11710.50_at_23.5E.png Beacom_11710H.jpg

PS: In the end I will have to change equipment (PC) to use your programs vms (the pots and I have them).
a6777.gif

--------------
Las balizas, son como gotas de agua en el mar.
Cuando se movieron el Astra 1N y el Astra2G de posicion, al no tener emision, se podian ver las balizas y realizar un buen seguimiento del satelite.

Ya es su posicion de trabajo y funcionando normalmente. son muy dificiles de ver, normalmente te dejas los ojos.
Esta foto creo que es de Feedsat_DXer (disculpas si no es correcto) con su equipo de "pesca" del Astra 2G a su paso por 23.5E camino de su posicion final.
La misma foto desde Madrid con Rover SRM-50.

2G Beacon 11710.50_at_23.5E.png
Beacom_11710H.jpg

PD:Al final tendre que cambiar de equipo (PC) para usar tus programas vms (los cacharros ya los tengo).
a6777.gif
 

Tururu

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90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
This picture shows one problem:
I changed my software, so that transponders without match on identified satellite are marked in red. Hispasat has a poor detection rating of just 53% of the transponders recognized in the spectrum.
Two of them are 11654MHz H-H and 11678MHz H-H. They are drawn in red, which means, they don't appear in the 0330.ini file for Hispasat.
Am I doing something wrong? I checked Lyngsat and those transponders are not listed!
I started EBSPro with my other bigger dish (thats why signal power is different) and those two transponders are found! My software detected them correctly.

BUT: They are DATA transponders, which are not included in the *.ini files!
Anyway, the new feature showing unmatched transponders in red is great to find feeds or otherwise unreported transponders!
Regards,
Vitor
Best Flysat, more updated and faster, I work with enigma2, I have the tp in format.xml if you are worth, I upload them to the forum.
Mejor Flysat, esta mas al dia y los cambios mas rapidos, trabajo con enigma2, los tp los tengo en formato.xml si te vale, los subo al foro.

FlySat Hispasat 30W-4/30W-5 @ 30° West
 

jeallen01

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Tururu.

With respect, I don't think anyone would argue that sites like Flysat provide very comprehensive and up-to-date info, but the problem for most people is (especially with respect to avoiding misleading transponder details when the same tech specs are used on several sats), and with specific reference to vma's sat identification s/w, identifying those transponders which are unique to only one satellite - and that is not at all clear from the lists on Flysat or (AFAIK) any other general sat info site.
 

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vma

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Hi,

New version available on my blog!

1) The satellite identification function shows matched transponders in orange, while unmatched transponders are shown in red. This allows to better understand which transponders are being missed. The reason is an outdated *.ini transponder list or the discovery of a brand new transponder or feed!



2) When rendering the GPS single frequency log on the embedded Google Maps, the measured signal power is now rendered with 256 different colours. The colour squeme is the same as the one used in the waterfall diagram.



Regards,
Vitor
 

vma

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Hi,

I went to Beacon_SatellitesCommunity and checked out the Beacon frequency list. Very interesting!

Then I tried to look at a beacon on 07.0°E Eutelsat 7A B: 11700.4 H (Widebeam).

The nice thing about the SMA Simple Spectrum Analyser is the relatively high resolution, so I got this picture. Marker 1 is locked on the beacon, marker 2 on the nearby noise floor. The noise margin is just -1 dBm! No way this can be used to identify satellites, at least not with this kind of hardware!

Anyway, the waterfall diagram shows that there is a signal - no doubt about that. I think that this tool could be nice for beacon hunters...

Untitled.png
Regards,
Vitor
 

Tururu

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Recycled as the owner.
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@vma
Updated file of tp's for Hispasat (+22), are the ones you commented, verify if it is correct 100%.
a5995.gif

The original is from the last version of the program.
It has several radio channels with very low SR and also very close frequencies.
---------------------
Fichero.ini actualizado de tp's para Hispasat (+22), estan los que comentaste, verifica si es correcto 100%.
a5995.gif

El original es de la ultima version del programa.
Tiene varios canales de radio con SR muy bajo y tambien frecuencias muy proximas.

Included the new tp that activated today/Incluido el nuevo tp que activaron hoy.
30ºW Hispasat, Cambios, nuevo TP activo y 2 nuevos canales TEST 13-12-2016

30W Europa TP??, 10769 H 30000 3/4 DVB-S2 8PSK MPEG-2
TEST AMC V100, A200 SID1 con imagenes promocionales.
TEST AMCN ELEC8K, V33 A32 SID8, carta de ajuste/color.


PS:
a6775.gif
 

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Tururu

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My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 56 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

Octagon SF8008 4K Twin, VU+Duo², VU+Ultimo4K.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
Tururu.

With respect, I don't think anyone would argue that sites like Flysat provide very comprehensive and up-to-date info, but the problem for most people is (especially with respect to avoiding misleading transponder details when the same tech specs are used on several sats), and with specific reference to vma's sat identification s/w, identifying those transponders which are unique to only one satellite - and that is not at all clear from the lists on Flysat or (AFAIK) any other general sat info site.
So is.
(Add)Finding a TP that is only used on a satellite, difficult, tomorrow if you use another satellite, the tuner compensates +/-3Mhz and is very selective, the USB tuner can compensate?

Identifying a satellite by tp's is not possible in general, the simplest example, many years ago, tune into Hispasat a receiver, without saying anything, you now put an Astra antenna at 19.2 ° East.
In the first 3 channels of Via Digital (currently Movistar. +), You now have the channels of Canal. + France, without touching anything, the receiver compensates for the small frequency difference and SR.
In my channel lists, I have more than 12,000 channels.
If you reference eg 10714 H, you have Astra at 28'2E CL4 with SR22000, at Astra at 19'2E HLG test with SR23500.
At 52E Monacosat you have 10717H3750

Another example, tp's in use in different satellites.
10718V22000- 8W
10719V22000- 7.3W
10719V27500- 13E
10721V27500- 7E

I do not know how selective the program is and the catcher.
In blind search a receiver jumps in general the canles to 1Mhz. of separation.
If you give the search data by hand, in Hispasat radio channels, you usually eat 4 tp, 2 and the tuner is much better.

The tp relation of each satellite that I use, is generated starting from the list using the blind search of the DUo2, Flysat, Lyngsat, KingofSat and lowering the relation of the 2 public webs, filter everything and I generate the mine and may be missing some.:-doh
-----------
Asi es.
(Añadido)Encontrar un TP que solo se use en un satelite, dificil, mañana puede que si lo use otro satelite, el tuner compensa +/-3Mhz y es muy selectivo, el sintonizador USB cuanto puede compensar?
Identificar un satelite por los tp's no es posible en general, el ejemplo mas sencillo, hace muchos muchos años, sintonizas en Hispasat un receptor, sin decirle nada, pones ahora una antena de Astra a 19'2ºEste.
En los 3 primeros canales de Via Digital (actualmente Movistar.+), tenias ahora los canales de Canal.+ Francia, sin tocar nada, el receptor compensa la pequeña diferencia de frecuencia y SR.
En mis listas de canales, tengo mas de 12.000 canales.
Si pones de referencia por ejemplo 10714 H, tienes en Astra a 28'2E CL4 con SR22000, en Astra a 19'2E HLG test con SR23500.
En 52E Monacosat tienes 10717H3750

Otro ejemplo, tp's en uso en distintos satelites.
10718V22000- 8W
10719V22000- 7.3W
10719V27500- 13E
10721V27500- 7E

No se lo selectivo que es el programa y la capturadora.
En busqueda ciega un receptor se salta en general los canles a 1Mhz. de separacion.
Si le das los datos de busqueda a mano, en Hispasat los canales de radio, se suele comer de 4 tp, 2 y el sintonizador es mucho mejor.

La relacion de tp de cada satelite que uso, esta generada partindo del listado usando la busqueda ciega del DUo2, Flysat, Lyngsat, KingofSat y bajando la relacion de las 2 web publicas, filtro todo y genero la mia y puede que falte alguno.:-rofl2

@vma
With the spectrum analyzers, you can read a tp and if it has the correct information, it identifies the network/RED (satelite) where you are.
I do not know if the program can do the same thing, upload a sample photo.
-----------
Con los analizadores de espectro, puedes leer un tp y si este tiene la informacion correcta, se identifica la RED (satelite) donde estas.
No se si puede hacer lo mismo el programa, subo alguna foto de muestra.

RED_28.2E Astra.jpg RED_28.2E Astra1.jpg
 
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vma

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Hi,

"@vma
With the spectrum analyzers, you can read a tp and if it has the correct information, it identifies the network/RED (satelite) where you are.
I do not know if the program can do the same thing, upload a sample photo."

This function uses the NIT (Network identification Table" to identify the satellite. This has the following problems:
1) Many satellite transponders do not carry NIT information (transponder used for feeds, data, provider, etc.) or have wrong NIT information (transponder that are distributed from one site to the other: uploaded to Astra and then retransmitted through Hispasat - the provider doesn't remux a new NIT). In these cases, the field meter does not show the satellite name or it shows the wrong satellite name.
2) In order to evaluate the NIT, the field meter has to first lock the signal. This requires perfect aligment of the dish. My method works with badly aligned dish, when the signal cannot be locked, but the transponders can already be identified as such.
3) The NIT table is carried within the TS (transport stream), but after a successfull signal lock, it takes quite some time for the NIT to be received. It can take up to half a minute (normaly around 10-20 seconds, which is a lot).

My software will never support that, because the SMA device is just the equivalent of a sweeped spectrum analyser. It does not have a tuner and as such cannot demodulate any analogue or digital signal!

I recommend the following setup for Satellite DX:

1) Crazyscan compatible SAT card.
2) SMA Device
3) LNB -> splitter like the Global Communications Split 4AF -(1)-> SAT Card -(2)-> DC Blocker (not needed with the 4AF but better be safe than sorrow) -> SMA device

This way you can always see the live spectrum with my software, do measurements, satellite identification without signal lock, etc.
Use EBSpro (discontinued?) or CrazyScan for blind scan, constellation diagram (CrazyScan) and picture (through VLC and/or TS Reader).

Regards,
Vitor
 

vma

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TX: Modulators for DVB-S/C/T + Dektec Modulators
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New version available - check my blog.

Capture.PNG


Regards,
Vitor
 

vma

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RX: 3 motorized DiSEqC-1.2 dishes (100cm, 110cm, 120cm) + 7 regular dishes.
Main receiver: Vu+ Duo + many others & IRD
TX: Modulators for DVB-S/C/T + Dektec Modulators
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Hi,

One question: is this a non documented beacon on Astra 19.2E at 12045MHz and 12052MHz, horizontal polarization, high band?

That seems pretty easy to find with my software, especially now that I implemented 1 KHz resolution. Notice that on 12054MHz the waterfall diagram shows a very faint signal, too:

Untitled.png
Regards,
Vitor
 

vma

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RX: 3 motorized DiSEqC-1.2 dishes (100cm, 110cm, 120cm) + 7 regular dishes.
Main receiver: Vu+ Duo + many others & IRD
TX: Modulators for DVB-S/C/T + Dektec Modulators
Field Meter: Emitor, KWS, Kathrein, Unaohm, Promax, Spaun, Rover Instruments, ...
My Location
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Here the same spectrum with greater span:

2.png

And measurement of the bandwidth (Delta Marker 1 - Marker 2 = 1.291 MHz):

upload_2016-12-16_0-13-57.png

Regards,
Vitor

PS: I fixed a few loose ends - bandwidth is now shown with 3 decimal places, the frequency input form allows to use keyboards keys and there is no need to change the decimal symbol in Regional settings (can be "," or "." - doesn't matter). I will upload the new version within the next few days.
 

vma

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RX: 3 motorized DiSEqC-1.2 dishes (100cm, 110cm, 120cm) + 7 regular dishes.
Main receiver: Vu+ Duo + many others & IRD
TX: Modulators for DVB-S/C/T + Dektec Modulators
Field Meter: Emitor, KWS, Kathrein, Unaohm, Promax, Spaun, Rover Instruments, ...
My Location
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Two more signals on 12290MHz and 12295MHz:

upload_2016-12-16_0-18-54.png

Any idea what this is? Beacons? Telemetry?

Because you now have 3 decimal places for frequency input / marker resolution, it is easy to find these signals, especially when using 1000 samples.

Regards,
Vitor
 

Llew

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No Vitor, they are low-band beacons on Astra L/1KR (11196H and what appears to be a new beacon on 11202H, checked with the Promax).

You seem to be switched to low-band (10600-9750=850, 12046-11196 =850). (It's nearer to 12046).
 
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