Why Things Are Made So Difficult?

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some888

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I believe it's mostly Irish people who live in UK are interested in those channels (correct me if I'm wrong)
but even for those who live in Ireland and for whatever reason can not receive freeview, why the thing are made so complicated to Broadcast a local TV channels in KA band from 9e?
why not to broadcast these channels in a same way like Freesat in UK from 28e ?
 
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A nonymous

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By using Ka band they don't have to encrypt the channels as the beam is so tight over Ireland its unlikely that anyone else outside of Ireland will receive them.

Nano
 
Piltdownpaul

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You would have thought with a normal beam set up even if it did spread across the uk, they would getter better advertising revenue if companies knew more people might inadvertedly see them.
 
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Yes, but then the argument is the same as it has been for years about overspill of BBC, ITV etc on 28.2E and of Premium Encrypted services on 28.2 and 28.5E into mainland Europe and beyond: Yes, there might on the one hand be opportunities for additional Revenue, but then the Copyright and related issues come into play and Rights are acquired at a price based on "unauthorised" reception being kept within bounds.
 
Analoguesat

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I believe it's mostly Irish people who live in UK are interested in those channels (correct me if I'm wrong)
but even for those who live in Ireland and for whatever reason can not receive freeview, why the thing are made so complicated to Broadcast a local TV channels in KA band from 9e?
why not to broadcast these channels in a same way like Freesat in UK from 28e ?
Simples - RTE cant afford the additional programme rights to transmit in the clear to the whole of nw europe.

Anyway tight beam Ka band is the way forward - the narrow beams allow the operators to cover multiple areas from one orbital location. I guarantee 20 years from now Ka band coverage will be much more prevalent than it is now.
 
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some888

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fair enough if they for whatever reason can not afford to pay extra because of copyrights.....
But some of RTE channels are already broadcasted from 28e and they encrypted for SKY Ireland but if I'm not mistaken you can watch them even with Setanta card (correct me if I'm wrong)

.... why not to include all of them on 28e and encrypt in the same way like Freesat Card from SKY (or in sky ireland package)

maybe I'm wrong but I really think that that KA band saorsat venue a bit usless

even on their website they say it is only for 1-2% of population who for whatever reason can not receive saorview
population of Republic Of Ireland and North Ireland is offically 6.4 million one percent of it makes 6 400 000
I can not find how big is average family in Ireland , let's say 3 is minimum
64000 /3

it makes 21333 houholds, but even this number is too generous becase we talking about rural areas where Saorview reception is limited

I can hardly imagine that people in those areas lived without any tv and (I think) most of them subscribed for the SKY Ireland already, where you can watch RTE channels.

ok ..even let's imagine somebody wasn't: but instalation of Saorsat Would cost (if to call in installer) around 300-350 (I guess) and this is just for 5 channels

just to compare if to take basic SKY entertainment extra for 26.50 quid a month ( or if you lucky with some kind of promotion deal even cheaper) you could see over 90 paid channels including RTE and the whole of freesat. you have a proper EPG and Recording with it.

again do not forget there are some doggy ways of watching even cheaper....

for now who would install Saorsat? Even if I would be Irish I wouldn't..... (some people even can not because dish is too big and you may need permission to install such a big dish in some places)

only few individuals would go for it ( and Irish living in UK, even reception is not designed for them)

Sorry to say but I think this venue (saorsat) is barindead :(
 
Analoguesat

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fair enough if they for whatever reason can not afford to pay extra because of copyrights.....
But some of RTE channels are already broadcasted from 28e and they encrypted for SKY Ireland but if I'm not mistaken you can watch them even with Setanta card (correct me if I'm wrong)
RTE is just about broke. The planned "RTE International" channel which was supposed to launch across Europe 2 or 3 years ago was cancelled because of the dreadful financial state the company was in.

ISTR The 4 channels only originally launched onto 28E as either SES or Sky provided the transponder capacity for free.
 
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some888

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Anyway tight beam Ka band is the way forward - the narrow beams allow the operators to cover multiple areas from one orbital location. I guarantee 20 years from now Ka band coverage will be much more prevalent than it is now.
Can you imagine 1m dishes everywhere where you can see sky mini dishes for now ? :) well I can't

plus that would involve the A LOT OF MONEY, because we talking about new installation for the every customer..... I just can not see it happening.... there is absolutely no reason to justify such a HUGE investment.
 
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Can you imagine 1m dishes everywhere where you can see sky mini dishes for now ? :) well I can't

plus that would involve the A LOT OF MONEY, because we talking about new installation for the every customer..... I just can not see it happening.... there is absolutely no reason to justify such a HUGE investment.
Thats what they said when Sky analogue shut up shop and Sky departed 19E to 28E ;)
 
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And you ended up with most of the old Sky Analogue 60cm mesh dishes :D
 
Analoguesat

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I got quite a few - several 80s from round here - most of whih are still in use in the garden today :D


Our Sky Digital dish is my folks old analogue dish which made the long journey up the M6 a very long time ago. You can still just read the Rugeley Aerials label on it! :D
 
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some888

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I can see a lot advantages going over from analogue to digital transmission.... but really I do not see any advantages going COMPLETELY over from KU into KA band
well there are few but they not practicable. not now
* when ku band if full inevitable going over to higher freqs - but there are a lot of much, much cheaper alternatives
* more data can be broadcasted in KA band

BUT
*narrow beams is only trouble to broadcaster not advantage - Especially when coverage is needed for big territory ( Imagine Viasat. Broadcasters From Russia and US trying to broadcast using narrow beams :) )
* MAIN DISADVANTAGE IS WEATHER..... STABLE RECEPTION IS POSSIBLE ONLY WHERE CLIMATE IS DRY...... THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH UK
I even do know know what size of dish may be needed for the stable reception in the rain ( if somebody can give the feedback)
that's why it's way too expensive to implement

only " mickey mouse" (RTE) will put the cost of installing equipment into his customers ( I think commercially it's not even serious to talk about number of people using Saorosat)
Serious broadcaster just can not afford too lose it's customers, especially when alternatives are there.
and KU band will be in use regardless of anything by main broadcasters - nobody will ever abandon it.
for the KA band I can see only as a data transmission (internet) and for new, "mickey mouse" broadcasters or one day bradcasters

besides what for will be used KU band if abandoned? it has to be commercially something mega important
 
Analoguesat

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At the end of the day if the broadcaster / satellite operators think they can make money from a switch then it will go ahead. What the consumers think about it doesnt matter - if Joe Bloggs wants his weekly fix of footy and its only being transmittted via Astra 2P on Ka band on the England & Scotland spots then he will upgrade - he doesnt care what the transmission arrangements are as long as he can watch the big game.

Of course some areas will always be too difficult to serve via Ka narrow spots - thats one of the reasons C-band is still going in places like Africa.

Ka is coming though, not immediately but in some areas its coming - you cant put the djinn back in the bottle now.
 
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some888

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I'm talking not from from the customer but from broadcaster point of view
let's Imagine I'm shareholder and you advising me go over to KA band :)

..... try to convince me why should I spent CRAZY MONEY (sky has about 10 million customers multiply it by 70-100 lowest price for new install of KA Band equipment) plus a new satellite and new broadcasting equipment

What do I gain from such investment?
 
Channel Hopper

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  • let's Imagine I'm shareholder and you advising me go over to KA band :)

    ..... try to convince me why should I spent CRAZY MONEY (sky has about 10 million customers multiply it by 70-100 lowest price for new install of KA Band equipment) plus a new satellite and new broadcasting equipment

    What do I gain from such investment?
Because Ka technology is proven not to have overspill / piracy from a downlink point of view

Any other - current ;) - retransmission of content is also being observed/wiped up by the authorities
.
 
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some888

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ok ... My reply as shareholder :)

yes I'm am cornered about piracy ..... but what you suggest is not solving my problem with piracy anyhow.....
1 I believe what you are trying to say making a beam narrow beam will cut off signal in non designated areas...... but they are not my subscribers anyway..... and they never will be.....
2 I do not see how going over to KA Band can help me fighting piracy in my customers designated area ... besides cutting the signal off completely can bring more problems then any good..... If there will be strong demand pirates can stream our signal over internet NON ENCRYPTED (iptv) .... THIS IS SOMETHING WE REALLY DO NOT WANT because it may affect my customers designated area

so far I can see only expenses but not any extra penny of profit
 
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Personally I think KA band will be used alongside KU for extra capacity, especially when we start ultra HD transmissions as we'll need more bandwidth. With the tight footprints possible there will be more frequency reuse too to allow more countries to share satellite positions.
 
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some888

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With the tight footprints possible there will be more frequency reuse too to allow more countries to share satellite positions
this is an easy, cheap and brilliant solution for the Ku band transmission instead of using new freqs :)...... this is happening already (Viasat) all we have to do just to make the different soundtracks for the different countries :)
 
Channel Hopper

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this is an easy, cheap and brilliant solution for the Ku band transmission instead of using new freqs :)...... this is happening already (Viasat) all we have to do just to make the different soundtracks for the different countries :)
Now you are not thinking like a shareholder/media mogul
 
Channel Hopper

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2 I do not see how going over to KA Band can help me fighting piracy in my customers designated area ... besides cutting the signal off completely can bring more problems then any good..... If there will be strong demand pirates can stream our signal over internet NON ENCRYPTED (iptv) .... THIS IS SOMETHING WE REALLY DO NOT WANT because it may affect my customers designated area
As per

Any other - current ;) - retransmission of content is also being observed/wiped up by the authorities

It's already been thoroughly looked into and neutralised (and often turns a profit)
 
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