Antique Prodelin (10 ft) project

[nelson_b]

hi nelson it will be interesting to see what you will pick up with this dish,also be interesting to see what gain it has against your 1.8cm dish.

Hi - had a play around the other day and did some comparisons.

1 West
BBC transponder 3895 R 9765
CM 1.8 ....... 8.0 db
Prodelin .......12.0 db

AFN transponder 4176 R 27999
CM 1.8 ........6.3 db
Prodelin .......11.0 db

Fox transponder 3723 R 18000
CM 1.8 ....... 6.0 - 8.5 db
Prodelin ...... 10.5 - 12.0 db No lock for me on this t.p. its 32 apsk - ( no p.c. sat card )

BBC ws radio t.p. 4031 L 1000
CM 1.8 ....... 0.5 - 0.7 db unlocked
Prodelin ....... 4.4 db locked - but will not download any radio channels ?

Channels that i can receive at 2.9 East and 3.1 East showed a similar difference between the dishes. 1 channel gained by the Prodelin over the 1.8 though.

Tigray tv 3798 L 2442
CM 1.8 ..... 0 db
Prodelin ..... 7.9 db


i,v scanned in channels from quite a few other sats but have not compared signal levels between the dishes or taken any pics yet of other new gains
Struggling to find much spare time at the moment

 

[Channel Hopper]

You need to string it and take some eye checks from the side of the dish, you may need to loosen some bolts that hold the reflector panels together before she will perform as per manufacturers spec.

 

[pride21]

hi nelson found it interesting you seem to average about 4db gain with the larger dish its that the sort of gain you were expecting or was you hoping for more gain,as CH said test the dish to see if you are spot on other than that its looking good.

 

[nelson_b]

You need to string it and take some eye checks from the side of the dish, you may need to loosen some bolts that hold the reflector panels together before she will perform as per manufacturers spec.

Hi - Thanks for your interest and comment C.H.

Do you know what age this old beast could be ? ... the mount is very heavy duty and very basic. it has no adjustment for declination.

Indeed when i put the petals together i was done on the yard in front of the dish which is not 100 per cent level - and the dish was notably buckled. so i tilted it right back until it was horizontal a loosened all the bolts and shook all the petals to settle them, and tightened them again ... much improved, but still not true when i put strings across it.
on studying the dish and mount etc, i noticed that the bracket (see pics) that holds the dish to the mount is slightly curved and has elongated holes to allow some adjustment - which pushes or pulls 1/4 section of the dish adjustment of one of these got the dish true.
next issue was the button hook type l.n.b.support which was hanging slightly low and to one side so i,v fitted stay wires from the support , with small turnbuckles at the rear to adjust, to get dead center......

Quite a bit of trial and error to find the l.n.b. "sweet spot " but got there eventually.
so i,v probably got it up to its best performance level

But she is an old dish ...... and if i run the palm of my hand across the petals i can feel very slight imperfections where the support ribs are, and one panel has had a slight repair .. so i,m sure some performance will be lost over this ?

A very brief test one evening on bbc world transponder 1 west with a k/u l.n.b showed it to be only marginally better than the 1.8 channel master. probably designed purely as a C band dish by the look of the old button hook l.n.b holder which i had to cut up a little to get a modern C band l.n.b. to fit and position correctly.

 

[scopus]

What a beast!!

 

[Channel Hopper]

Hi - Thanks for your interest and comment C.H.

Do you know what age this old beast could be ? ... the mount is very heavy duty and very basic. it has no adjustment for declination.

The mount is certainly not Prodelin, it was most likely made up when the original antenna was scrapped and the reflector panels were sold off, leaving the mount in place.

Btw you should have four panels with the -136 number and four with -135 to make a complete front assembly. And only a flat ground floor assembly as per manufacturers instructions is likely to give the promised gain for a 3m dish. (40dBi C band/49dBi Ku band)

http://www.gdsatcom.com/vsat/Technical_Docs/assembly_manuals/4096-538.pdf

 

[Anonymous_1]

Hi - had a play around the other day and did some comparisons.

1 West
BBC transponder 3895 R 9765
CM 1.8 ....... 8.0 db
Prodelin .......12.0 db

AFN transponder 4176 R 27999
CM 1.8 ........6.3 db
Prodelin .......11.0 db

Fox transponder 3723 R 18000
CM 1.8 ....... 6.0 - 8.5 db
Prodelin ...... 10.5 - 12.0 db No lock for me on this t.p. its 32 apsk - ( no p.c. sat card )

BBC ws radio t.p. 4031 L 1000
CM 1.8 ....... 0.5 - 0.7 db unlocked
Prodelin ....... 4.4 db locked - but will not download any radio channels ?

View attachment 82402

I used your report and replace your 1.80m by my CM 3.1 , your gain is good, even if we do not have the same LNB to make an exact comparison

1 West
BBC transponder 3985 R 9765
CM 3.1 ....... 11.1 db
Prodelin .......12.0 db

AFN transponder 4176 R 27999
CM 3.1 ........11.0 db
Prodelin .......11.0 db

Fox transponder 3723 R 18000
CM 3.1 ....... 10.0 db (8 modcode in the stream, not only FOX News)
Prodelin ...... 10.5 - 12.0 db No lock for me on this t.p. its 32 apsk - ( no p.c. sat card )

BBC ws radio t.p. 4031 L 1000
CM 3.1 ....... 11 db
Prodelin ....... 4.4 db locked - but will not download any radio channels ?

I think there is a mistake with your receiver frequency lock for this last one , because 2 SR 1000 are closed, one is DATA, 2nd are the BBC radios and you can't get 4.4dB if I lock @ 11dB:


I hope this can help you, bu it's clear, your antenna even if old, he still good (my 3.10m is also old )

 

[Channel Hopper]

I hope this can help you, bu it's clear, your antenna even if old, he still good (my 3.10m is also old )

Or yours is also on its way out......

 

[nelson_b]

The mount is certainly not Prodelin, it was most likely made up when the original antenna was scrapped and the reflector panels were sold off, leaving the mount in place.

Btw you should have four panels with the -136 number and four with -135 to make a complete front assembly. And only a flat ground floor assembly as per manufacturers instructions is likely to give the promised gain for a 3m dish. (40dBi C band/49dBi Ku band)

http://www.gdsatcom.com/vsat/Technical_Docs/assembly_manuals/4096-538.pdf

Thank you very much C.H. for your info and the assembly link.
I was working blind with this setup - it was in pieces when i bought and collected it - the chap i bought it from had never had it assembled either.
i will check "all" the panel numbers tomorrow i don,t recall seeing any -135 though just -136
i spent a lot of time studying the panels for signs of how they had been assembled previously .
the bottom four are certainly the way they have been in the past - as when the dish is wet i can faintly see the words SATELLITE ANTENNA SYSTEMS across the bottom half near the edge
i wish i,d had a big enough flat surface to build the panels on as i spent a lot of time getting it true once it was on the mount.

 

[nelson_b]

I used your report and replace your 1.80m by my CM 3.1 , your gain is good, even if we do not have the same LNB to make an exact comparison

I think there is a mistake with your receiver frequency lock for this last one , because 2 SR 1000 are closed, one is DATA, 2nd are the BBC radios and you can't get 4.4dB if I lock @ 11dB:
View attachment 82474

I hope this can help you, bu it's clear, your antenna even if old, he still good (my 3.10m is also old )

Thanks very much - @Feedsat_DXer - for your compare / results -its very useful to me to know how another "rather old" 3 M dish performs.
I.m pleased ......... and glad now that i spent the time that i did, stringing the dish and getting the dish petals true.
i will look into the problem with BBC radios as thinking about it now, i,m sure i.v had that t.p. ok in the past on the 1.8 ?

regards .....................

 

[nelson_b]

hi nelson found it interesting you seem to average about 4db gain with the larger dish its that the sort of gain you were expecting or was you hoping for more gain,as CH said test the dish to see if you are spot on other than that its looking good.

Yes "pride" average gain seems to be around 4db on channels that both dishes can see
I didn,t really have any expectations .... it was just curiosity ( and a bargain price ) that made me purchase the dish --- i,m very pleased with the results so far particularly after reading "feedsat-dxer,s
comparison as i said in the first post though ... it can,t stay where it is for too long and i,m not sure about long term alternatives ....................

 

[beavs2112]

The mount is certainly not Prodelin, it was most likely made up when the original antenna was scrapped and the reflector panels were sold off, leaving the mount in place.

I agree its not a Prodelin mount like any I've seen. Interesting in your pic you can see where the original prodelin mount which was steel rusted and stained the fiberglass My similar vintage CM 3.0M also had rust stains where the steel mount attached to the dish. Here are some pics of similar vintage (20 yrs old) Prodelin 10 foot models with polar mounts. View attachment 82486 View attachment 82488

 

[Channel Hopper]

Thank you very much C.H. for your info and the assembly link.
I was working blind with this setup - it was in pieces when i bought and collected it - the chap i bought it from had never had it assembled either.
i will check "all" the panel numbers tomorrow i don,t recall seeing any -135 though just -136
i spent a lot of time studying the panels for signs of how they had been assembled previously .
the bottom four are certainly the way they have been in the past - as when the dish is wet i can faintly see the words SATELLITE ANTENNA SYSTEMS across the bottom half near the edge
i wish i,d had a big enough flat surface to build the panels on as i spent a lot of time getting it true once it was on the mount.

There is a diagram of the finished antenna within the manual link I sent earlier. The problem with this type of dish upon disassembly (unless the exact reversal of assembly) is a pile of bent angle iron and a lot of nuts/bolts, and no box to store it in.

 

[nelson_b]

There is a diagram of the finished antenna within the manual link I sent earlier. The problem with this type of dish upon disassembly (unless the exact reversal of assembly) is a pile of bent angle iron and a lot of nuts/bolts, and no box to store it in.

Yes - plenty of evidence on the ribs on the back of the dish face panels , of someone,s happy hour with an angle grinder

 

[nelson_b]

Thanks for the info - and the brilliant set of pics @beavs2112

 

[nelson_b]

Hi -
Pic 1 shows the channels being received here today (overcast with showers)
with the Prodelin 3 m at 4.9 East
All are gains over the 1.8 c.m. except Rave TV at 3644 H 1.300

 

[pride21]

with gains like that nelson I be tempted to swap the 1.8cm for the prodelin it seems much more fun to use.

 

[RimaNTSS]

it seems much more fun to use.

Agree with that! Bigger dish is always much more fun!

 

[Archived-1]

Hi nelson, a few questions if you don't mind please, how's she been holding up in the winds, it looks quite sheltered where she's sat ?, do we have any idea of the gain of this dish in C band please, and what size pole is she sat on, thank you for any information you can supply .

 

[nelson_b]

Hi nelson, a few questions if you don't mind please, how's she been holding up in the winds, it looks quite sheltered where she's sat ?, do we have any idea of the gain of this dish in C band please, and what size pole is she sat on, thank you for any information you can supply .

Hi Martin.
I,m lucky that the large garage/building is giving some shelter from the very strong winds that we have had recently ....but the sight of a 10 foot dish bobbing around in the wind was pretty scary

I,v no info on the official gain of the dish other than the Prodelin spec sheet that beavs2112 uploaded in post 8
which covers a number of dishes --- my results show about 4 db gain over the c.m 1.8 on most transponders .

i will measure the pole size/ diameter and thickness etc tomorrow, as i,m away from home at the moment.

looking forward to your 2.4 c.m. project