Astra 1N @ 28E - about to go on air / on air!!

[iggy]

I have joined the discussion on one of the local forums and it turns out that Poland is somehow "divided", western part (Poznan, Leszno, Wroclaw) has very strong signal, stronger then Astra2D, but eastern part (Krakow, Warsaw, Lublin) doesn't even see a thing. One of the colleagues from Lublin used spectrum analyzer, which determined that signal level is significantly weaker then all V transponders of Astra 2D. I am wondering how H transponders will turn out?

 

[Rick]

It's all early days yet, I very much doubt that the results we are seeing now are what we will see in a few weeks time, signal levels and beam shapes will undoubtably change.

 

[Bob Meade]

I hope someone will post on here, when I can receive this on a SKY HD box, Thanks in anticipation

EDIT: for those struggling with second rate Bits & bods, I managed to pick this up on a cheapo Skyline HDSR200 with the following settings: (I had to use all of them)

11127V 22000, 2/3, TONE ON
Vpid 2305
audiopid 2306
pcrpid 21200
Quality: 60% Signal 90% - this compares with Q40% & sig 60% for most other 2D signals

 

[SZGY]

Tried yesterday with an AzBox Elite with Enigma2 on it. Locks and scans fine, no picture breakups either, even at 2am.

 

[zorbua]

I just Received the 11127 V 22000 down here in Malta with a signal strength of 45%.
Nothing though on the 11141 H, if its valid.

 

[park_gate]

I just Received the 11127 V 22000 down here in Malta with a signal strength of 45%.
Nothing though on the 11141 H, if its valid.

How does it compair to 2D, 2A/2B?

What size dish are you using?

I ask these question because it is possible they are only testing and not switched to the spot beam?

If 1N is weaker than 2A/2B and silightly stronger than 2D then I think we can say they are using a spot
beam.

If it is a lot stringer than 2D they might be using an intermediate beam although I'm not sure why they would do that.

Terry

 

[Satellite74]

Poland is somehow "divided", western part (Poznan, Leszno, Wroclaw) has very strong signal, stronger then Astra2D, but eastern part (Krakow, Warsaw, Lublin) doesn't even see a thing.

yet more proof that the new-generation Astra satellites are capable of producing a sharply defined illumination zone with a quite abrupt signal drop-off on the edges, resulting in minimal overspill.

This is only just the beginning. And on digitalfernsehen.de, somebody has been pondering why we have such unbelievable signal strength reports from all across Western Europe... consider this: Astra 1N was designed to provide two pan-European beams at 19.2E. It was only in the later stages of preparations for the 1N mission that it was announced that 1N would be sent on an "interim mission" at 28 degrees before being repositioned at 19 degrees. So would it have made sense to spend potentially millions of euros on changing the hardware layout and adding a third mirror just for a UK spotbeam, if that mirror would only be used for a little bit over a year?

Remember when Astra first published a map of the new 1N UK beam about a year ago (and quickly retracted it again) which showed a wide illumination zone across Europe, including a strange sidelobe west of Portugal in the middle of the Atlantic? Remember, since yesterday, we have even had reports from the Canary Islands that they now get 1N's Channel 4 HD with a large enough dish. Here, take a look...

In reality, it could be that this first map was in fact accurate, and what could be happening at the moment is that one of the two pan-European beams is being used to serve Britain. And because it was never designed to be a narrow UK spotbeam, it illuminates half of Europe. Once 1N is transferred to 19.2E, that beam will probably be nudged a few hundred kilometres east, which will make it fit perfectly over continental Europe, if you look at the map.

So what's going to happen once Astra 2E relieves 1N at 28E in two years' time? Probably 2E will have a UK spotbeam for real, meaning Europe will lose the signal. It will use the same kind of technology which now means Western Poland gets 1N, while the eastern part is looking at blank screens.

 

[iggy]

It's all early days yet, I very much doubt that the results we are seeing now are what we will see in a few weeks time, signal levels and beam shapes will undoubtably change.

Do you think that the actual UK beam will shrink ultimately?

 

[park_gate]

yet more proof that the new-generation Astra satellites are capable of producing a sharply defined illumination zone with a quite abrupt signal drop-off on the edges, resulting in minimal overspill.

<big snip>

And because it was never designed to be a narrow UK spot beam, it illuminates half of Europe. Once 1N is transferred to 19.2E, that beam will probably be nudged a few hundred kilometres east, which will make it fit perfectly over continental Europe, if you look at the map.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

SES have published the spec for 1N and it shows one of the dish is larger than 2D so it should have a tighter beam. They also say the power is going to go up so that could help with fringe reception.

I did consider doings some number crunching to try and predict what would happed but it made my head hurt thinking about it, particularly when I thought about the fact the fringe reception depends on sidelobes and imperfections in the transmitter dish.

Astra 2D has a dead spot near Alicante where large dish sizes are required. If 1N has a dead spot in northern Europe but not in Spain then this is good news for Expats in Spain.

I would make a note of caution as it is early days and things could change.

Terry

 

[park_gate]

Do you think that the actual UK beam will shrink ultimately?

No, the spec. says there is a 4dB increase in power over the UK compared to 2D and I think they will want to keep that margin to allow for more robust reception during bad weather.

They can’t change the beam width once the satellite has been launched.

People in fringe areas often think SES (or more commonly and comically Sky) adjust the satellite so they can’t get BBC in their Spanish village; but that is just plain silly.

Terry

 

[Satellite74]

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

SES have published the spec for 1N and it shows one of the dishes is larger than 2D so it should have a tighter beam. They also say the power is going to go up so that could help with fringe reception.

I did consider doings some number crunching to try and predict what would happed but it made my head hurt thinking about it, particularly when I thought about the fact the fringe reception depends on sidelobes and imperfections in the transmitter dish.

well, I was essentially just regurgitating what has been said on digitalfernsehen.de and adding a few of my own thoughts, but to me their theory does make sense. It just seems too good to be true that almost all of Western continental Europe should be well within the UK spotbeam's fringe. Maybe you are right, and maybe it is just because they are still working on a few things at SES. We will probably find out soon...

 

[timo_w2s]

In reality, it could be that this first map was in fact accurate, and what could be happening at the moment is that one of the two pan-European beams is being used to serve Britain. And because it was never designed to be a narrow UK spotbeam, it illuminates half of Europe. Once 1N is transferred to 19.2E, that beam will probably be nudged a few hundred kilometres east, which will make it fit perfectly over continental Europe, if you look at the map.

So what's going to happen once Astra 2E relieves 1N at 28E in two years' time? Probably 2E will have a UK spotbeam for real, meaning Europe will lose the signal. It will use the same kind of technology which now means Western Poland gets 1N, while the eastern part is looking at blank screens.

Personally I never doubted that original footprint map and I'm sure when Astra 1N goes to its proper home at 19.2E we will see that footprint being used as originally intended over mainland Europe. I think when the Astra 2F and 2E come along with their proper UK footprints then things will be worse for Spain, but for now they can enjoy a bit of extra signal while we suffer in northern Europe where Astra 2D had a few nice little sidelobes.

 

[park_gate]

well, I was essentially just regurgitating what has been said on digitalfernsehen.de and adding a few of my own thoughts, but to me their theory does make sense. It just seems too good to be true that almost all of Western continental Europe should be well within the UK spotbeam's fringe. Maybe you are right, and maybe it is just because they are still working on a few things at SES. We will probably find out soon...

I think it's too early to say as we don't know which beam they are using for sure.

Fringe reception is very unpredictable with published signal strengths maps being way of the mark in practice.

Hot and cold spots can occur due to imperfections in the transmission dish so we need to see more reports
from the fringe areas.


Terry

 

[dvdfilm]

well, I was essentially just regurgitating what has been said on digitalfernsehen.de and adding a few of my own thoughts, but to me their theory does make sense. It just seems too good to be true that almost all of Western continental Europe should be well within the UK spotbeam's fringe. Maybe you are right, and maybe it is just because they are still working on a few things at SES. We will probably find out soon...

Well even Astra 2D is received in many parts of Europe

 

[Carrick22]

Hello everybody!

Just to report, here in Zagreb, Croatia with fully motorised Gibertini 105cm dish I've never seen any signal on Astra 2D, but on specific frequency on 1N I get about 26 percent signal which means with certain modifications I can get 40 at max. That could be a really good news if it remains like this, but somehow I doubt it will. We'll see when this testing phase ends.

 

[SZGY]

I'm sure this spot beam is going to be used for something else, once 1N is moved to 19.2E. SES must have planned this way forward. They may very well need this exact beam width for a different region in the future. 2E, F, G however, have been designed to specifically serve at 28.2E and will probably sport a very narrow beam with a possibility of frequency re-use in mind.

 

[iggy]

Anyhow, SES is capable of adjusting spot beams as it was already proved when TVP had launched free to view package. According to different reports, people from western Europe lost signal and could not watch Polish TV anymore. Eventually TVP has changed their mind and encrypted channels back what resulted in enlarging spot beam to its initial shape.

 

[park_gate]

According to the following site there are now 3 TP active?

_http://www.astra2d.com/astra1n.html

and nothing on lyngsat.

Just out of curiosity how do we know we are looking a 1N?

Terry

 

[Satellite74]

Just out of curiosity how do we know we are looking a 1N?

ultimately, only by taking SES's word for it. The transponder feeds that your satellite receiver picks up carry no information telling you where they originated from.

 

[andrewcrawford]

According to the following site there are now 3 TP active?

_http://www.astra2d.com/astra1n.html

and nothing on lyngsat.

Just out of curiosity how do we know we are looking a 1N?

Terry

no signal from the otehr 2