Astra 2E: Western Europe Reports

[mickwig]

Hello everyone - new kid on the block here.

Just installed a 120cm Televes with Dur-Line Unicable LNB located 100km SE of Munich. More or less exactly on the green line of the graph above.
Receiver is a a Gigablue UHD 4K with OpenATV image.

Signal on ITV HD drops from SNR 70% around mid day to SNR 50-55% in the evening. Already at SNR 60% pixilation distort the signal heavily. Also lose BBC 1/2 HD to pixilation around 18:00 hrs.

Most SD channels are OK around the clock. Only Food Network tends to pixilate.

Not sure if I have to upgrade to a 150cm or perhaps go for a VU+ receiver. Anyone here who can point me in the right direction?

FYI. Lived around Frankfurt last 20 years and had perfect reception with a Toroidal T-90 and VU+ Duo.

Hi, I am about 200k due north of Munich and I need a 240 cm to get decent all around the clock reception. That signal drop will be much greater during the sommer month. In the moment we are experiencing the "good times". My tip: Dont waste time trying to fine tune. The satellites are 0.3 deg apart (2E 28.5 and 2G, 2F 28.2). I tried fine tuning but the only way was bigger.

 

[Harvey2nd]

Hi, I am about 200k due north of Munich and I need a 240 cm to get decent all around the clock reception. That signal drop will be much greater during the sommer month. In the moment we are experiencing the "good times". My tip: Dont waste time trying to fine tune. The satellites are 0.3 deg apart (2E 28.5 and 2G, 2F 28.2). I tried fine tuning but the only way was bigger.

What annoys me most is two months ago I had no problem receiving all the HD channels. Now all the HD channels except Channel 5 HD are gone from 18:00 hrs to morning. Darn. SD channels all good - but being a perfectionist that doesn't help.
Might opt for a clean install of the image.

 

[Sleepingwiththefish]

What annoys me most is two months ago I had no problem receiving all the HD channels. Now all the HD channels except Channel 5 HD are gone from 18:00 hrs to morning. Darn. SD channels all good - but being a perfectionist that doesn't help.
Might opt for a clean install of the image.

I think you should be getting better signal now than two months ago.
For me, same as last year, after end of September-beginning of October, signal for 28E UK beams started to increase.
A couple of known, 'hard to get' transponders, in summer they're around 7.5dB, now almost 10dB, which gives some margin for winter rainy days.

I would expect more stable signal at your location and your setup. Don't rush the fine tune of dish/lnb. The dish might have moved a tiny tiny bit.

 

[Harvey2nd]

I think you should be getting better signal now than two months ago.
For me, same as last year, after end of September-beginning of October, signal for 28E UK beams started to increase.
A couple of known, 'hard to get' transponders, in summer they're around 7.5dB, now almost 10dB, which gives some margin for winter rainy days.

I would expect more stable signal at your location and your setup. Don't rush the fine tune of dish/lnb. The dish might have moved a tiny tiny bit.

Thanks Tony. Went out there this evening and tried to adjust further but the best I achieved on ITV HD was a signal constantly swinging between 40% - 56% meaning completely pixelated. Might have to experiment in other areas. certainly won't get a bigger dish up until spring - if that is the solution.

 

[RimaNTSS]

tried to adjust further

By adjusting I also meant adjusting the position of the LNB in such a way that LNB's phase center is co-located with the antenna's focal point. And, at the same time, LNB is pointed towards the right place on the antenna's surface. And, of course, not forgetting to properly skew the LNB.

 

[Harvey2nd]

Thanks for all your input. Fantastic with such an active forum.

A small update:
This morning, in spite of light snow, signal was a rock solid 67% on ITV HD and 76% on BBC 1 HD without any pixilation. Skew is -8 degree, which should be correct according to dishpointer.com.

The only thing I haven't been able to test is skewing the antenna a bit which has a dimension of 124 x 133cm. Might even try to move the LNB further away from the antenna by adding a small extension to the arm.

With the snow just now, might be some time before I can test this out. Shall keep you posted.

 

[rodscha]

@Harvey2nd
"Thanks Tony. Went out there this evening and tried to adjust further but the best I achieved on ITV HD was a signal constantly swinging between 40% - 56% meaning completely pixelated. Might have to experiment in other areas. certainly won't get a bigger dish up until spring - if that is the solution."

I have this "swinging" problem on BBC Hd when the signal comes down in its yearly cycle (may to sept more or less)
Does this mean my pointing isn 't accurate?
or just the fact that we are on the edge of the area covered by this beam? So the signal becomes a kind of "ripple"?

 

[mickwig]

What annoys me most is two months ago I had no problem receiving all the HD channels. Now all the HD channels except Channel 5 HD are gone from 18:00 hrs to morning. Darn. SD channels all good - but being a perfectionist that doesn't help.
Might opt for a clean install of the image.

As I wrote in my previous post, in the moment levels are really high. This will change after spring sun outage. By the middle of the year you will have problems with all the HD tp's. Even SD will get worse especially with rain and always at night, when you need it the most. Believe me, I have tried, even SW professional LNB. I have been playing this game since the changeover many years ago.

You seem to be centered on 2G because you receive ITV HD quite strongly. But before you decide on the size of your new dish you should maybe wait until next summer. I installed 180cm in August after the changeover. Within 1 day I knew that that would not work and ordered the 240cm. The signal weakens a lot near the flanks.

Also, you must be somewhere near the Austrian border (100k se of munich). So I am only about 250k nnw from your position and I need a huge dish to receive the UK beam. ITV HD on 2G does not work at all, there are SKY tp's on the europe neam right next to it which mask the weaker UK beam tp. BBC 1HD works OK, but not 24/7, BBC4 HD on 2F or G is hard to get. But my dish has an opening of 0.7 deg, so I had to choose a bird and I stuck with 2E on 28.5.

Tweaking the dish or changing the LNB will get you minutes more viewing time and no reserve.

Grüsse aus Nordbayern

mickwig

 

[Sleepingwiththefish]

I have this "swinging" problem on BBC Hd when the signal comes down in its yearly cycle (may to sept more or less)
Does this mean my pointing isn 't accurate?
or just the fact that we are on the edge of the area covered by this beam? So the signal becomes a kind of "ripple"?

130cm is probably not enough to deal with fluctuations even if "pointed accurately".

At my location, central PT, with a PFA 2.4m, BBC 1-2 HD channels/TPs are the most stable here, summer months ~12dB, now ~13.5dB, can even deal with some heavy rain now...
BBC 4 HD now is 11.7dB
I can ruin this signal by pointing the dish to 2F/28.2, to favor some lower signals I have there, for example on 12382H, so, I found a spot in the middle of 28.2-28.5 where I think I have a good "average"

Dish needs to be stable, a good mount that provide smooth fine adjustments is essential, because a couple mm can ruin everything, also you need time and patience!

For me it was also needed to adjust LNB distance, I had to place it more farther away from the dish than the original position,

Based on local reports with smaller antennas, it did not work very well for them, to have some margin on 2E they lost most channels of 2F UK and vice versa.

 

[Harvey2nd]

As I wrote in my previous post, in the moment levels are really high. This will change after spring sun outage. By the middle of the year you will have problems with all the HD tp's. Even SD will get worse especially with rain and always at night, when you need it the most. Believe me, I have tried, even SW professional LNB. I have been playing this game since the changeover many years ago.

You seem to be centered on 2G because you receive ITV HD quite strongly. But before you decide on the size of your new dish you should maybe wait until next summer. I installed 180cm in August after the changeover. Within 1 day I knew that that would not work and ordered the 240cm. The signal weakens a lot near the flanks.

Also, you must be somewhere near the Austrian border (100k se of munich). So I am only about 250k nnw from your position and I need a huge dish to receive the UK beam. ITV HD on 2G does not work at all, there are SKY tp's on the europe neam right next to it which mask the weaker UK beam tp. BBC 1HD works OK, but not 24/7, BBC4 HD on 2F or G is hard to get. But my dish has an opening of 0.7 deg, so I had to choose a bird and I stuck with 2E on 28.5.

Tweaking the dish or changing the LNB will get you minutes more viewing time and no reserve.

Grüsse aus Nordbayern

mickwig

Servus Mickwig,

I am primarily focused on getting the freeview channels and preferably in HD. Unfortunately I am a bit limited on how big I can go. Probably able to increase from 120 cm to 150cm without getting complaints. Certainly not 180 or even 240 (I wish).

Nonetheless, after fiddling around outside 2 nights ago and not able to get a working signal I had no problems last night. All channels were stable viewing at SNR 60-63% last night.
This morning back to a solid ITV HD 73%, BBC 1/2 HD 80% and C5 HD 82%.

Will observe over Christmas and see where it lands when we get to middle of the year before making a decision.

Yes I am very close to the Austrian border. My location at 10.3 E might give me a slight advantage compared to you?

Thanks for the input.

Grüsse aus Allgäu

Harvey2nd

 

[rodscha]

Well,my dish is very well stabilised,ultra solid mount.Thanks to 2Galli!
I did the pointing on BBC HD,the channels i prefer by far....
Now i get a very stable signal on all,BBCHD c4HD,CH5HD and the Dave/Drama/Smithsonian batch aswell
When May comes along ,theBBC HD signal swings,then disappear & i start using SD instead
The" ripple stage" is when value hovers between30 and 60% just on the edge of watchability
Also,when that stage happens,Ch4HD is at a very stable 70%(and 30to60%"swing on BBCHD)
As if C4 was exactly my pointing & BBCHD slightly out-focused
What doyouthink?

 

[mickwig]

Servus Mickwig,

I am primarily focused on getting the freeview channels and preferably in HD. Unfortunately I am a bit limited on how big I can go. Probably able to increase from 120 cm to 150cm without getting complaints. Certainly not 180 or even 240 (I wish).

Nonetheless, after fiddling around outside 2 nights ago and not able to get a working signal I had no problems last night. All channels were stable viewing at SNR 60-63% last night.
This morning back to a solid ITV HD 73%, BBC 1/2 HD 80% and C5 HD 82%.

Will observe over Christmas and see where it lands when we get to middle of the year before making a decision.

Yes I am very close to the Austrian border. My location at 10.3 E might give me a slight advantage compared to you?

Thanks for the input.

Grüsse aus Allgäu

Harvey2nd

Servus Harvey, yesterday was a good day. The signal at night varies a lot. During the day the recption is quite similar. The worst time is from about 8 p.m. to 11 p.m. Later at night the signal comes back and is really strong in the morning. But as I said before, this changes over the course of the year. At my position (small town 50k due north of Nürnberg) I sit on the northern flank of the signal. If you go lets say 50k further NE you will hit a null-zone. After that dish sizes of way over 3m are required. I am wondering if you are already on the southern flank of the UK beam, then the effect might be reversed.

You do have a big advantage compared to my position (jealaous!!). I have 120cm Kathrein prime-focus with polar-mount on the roof. While all the Europe beam channels com in very strong, I might be able to get a few glimpses of the UK beam around dinner time. Imagine the shock when Channel4 changed over as the first to go. My advice to you is to observe for a while. You will know very quickly, when the drop is the highest. Then maybe find a electronics firm round your area, that has experience with that bird. Makes it easier than to trial and error your way through.

Take care/Mick



But nonetheless your 120cm might just be that bit to small to get 24/7 reception all year round. You would need to find someone else in your area to compare notes.

 

[Harvey2nd]

I am wondering if you are already on the southern flank of the UK beam, then the effect might be reversed.

How can I check?

 

[mickwig]

Hi, try this

Astra 2 Reception Map (UK Spotbeam) - Google My Maps

Reception reports for the Astra 2 satellites, dish sizes in Europe. Please remember to add as much information as possible, including location (town) dish size and what kind of reception you have. Pleas email your report to me at the Astra 2 Website: http://www.astra2sat.com Map url...

www.google.com

The yellow dot north of Nuremberg is me.

Looking at a map with footprint I reckon you are still on the north side of the flank.

Satbeams - World Of Satellites at your fingertips

Satbeams - Satellite footprints, news and charts

www.satbeams.com

So your signal strength will in-/decrease like at my position. So after Xmas it will gradually get worse (a constant up and down) until spring equinox. Then it will drop and by summer solstice it gets really bad to improve slightly until autumn equinox. By Xmas we are winning again.

Still, my advice is to go as big as you can. A decent 150cm will set you back 'only' 300 Euro. You might still be able to use your current LNB. Looking at the maps I would not think that every post is accurate. Most people probaböy do not watch Astra 2 24/7 and dont then know about the fluctuations.

 

[Harvey2nd]

Awesome. Thanks M8.

Located in Kempten (Allgäu) I should at least be able to get steady 2E signals. Guess the 2G signals will be the tricky ones. Especially later.

Can't wait for the summer solstice (not) to see what that will bring.

 

[mickwig]

Well,my dish is very well stabilised,ultra solid mount.Thanks to 2Galli!
I did the pointing on BBC HD,the channels i prefer by far....
Now i get a very stable signal on all,BBCHD c4HD,CH5HD and the Dave/Drama/Smithsonian batch aswell
When May comes along ,theBBC HD signal swings,then disappear & i start using SD instead
The" ripple stage" is when value hovers between30 and 60% just on the edge of watchability
Also,when that stage happens,Ch4HD is at a very stable 70%(and 30to60%"swing on BBCHD)
As if C4 was exactly my pointing & BBCHD slightly out-focused
What doyouthink?

Hi rodscha, your dish is not exactly pointing at 2E (BBC1 HD) at 28.5 but at 2F/G (C4HD/C5HD/ITVHD/BBC4HD) which sits at 28.2. So yes I would think you are setup for 2F/G, therefore BBC1 HD breaks up. To try if my theory is right, try BBC4 HD at night.

 

[rodscha]

Hello Mickwig
Usually BBC4HD is somewhat weaker when propagation weakens and BBC1&2 slightly stronger
I used to have a very weak ITV1HD on 12363 V 27500 under "average propagation it would beak up;
Now,it 's a swinging ,rippling 40-60%, watcheable
,but a newly fond ITVHD frequency is much stronger for me,11097 V 23000 (a very stable 72%),much like BBC1,2,3,4HD or C4HD
both ITVs carry different sets of ads..

 

[mickwig]

Hello Mickwig
Usually BBC4HD is somewhat weaker when propagation weakens and BBC1&2 slightly stronger
I used to have a very weak ITV1HD on 12363 V 27500 under "average propagation it would beak up;
Now,it 's a swinging ,rippling 40-60%, watcheable
,but a newly fond ITVHD frequency is much stronger for me,11097 V 23000 (a very stable 72%),much like BBC1,2,3,4HD or C4HD
both ITVs carry different sets of ads..

I dont know whats happening st your end. What I can tell you is:

BBC 1/2 HD is on Astra 2E, BBC 4 HD is on either 2 F or 2 G, I am not sure. All ITV HD's are also on either 2 G or 2F. Thwe ITV 1 on 12,363 is encrypted and can only be watched with a SKY sub. If you go to the start page of this forum you will find an article about ITV changing the regions from SD to HD. Those are the ones you newly found. They are also on 2 G or F.

 

[rodscha]

Thank yu for such accurate advice.
So apparently ,I shouldn t try to re-point my dish ,and just follow the ups and downs of the yearly propagation cycles.
Happy St Nicolas Weekend!

 

[mickwig]

Thank yu for such accurate advice.
So apparently ,I shouldn t try to re-point my dish ,and just follow the ups and downs of the yearly propagation cycles.
Happy St Nicolas Weekend!

Or get a bigger dish!