Astra 2F: Western Europe Discussion

[Gigioman]

I returned to Munich during the afternoon of 31-Dec. No changes to my setup. Unusually, Ch5 worked until well after sunset. Weather conditions fair (high cloud, light winds, just above 0C ambient)

• This lunchtime (01-Jan), the 2F transponders (Ch5, ITV HD and CH4 HD are the ones I checked) were also at record levels (CNR 5,0..6,0dB, cf. ~3,0-3,5dB during December).
• I manually checked the 11023 transponder, and got lock at 5,0dB SNR - despite no reported change in signal level (cf earlier, unlocked measurements)
• I checked the "noise floor" at 11100, and noted no change (cf earlier measurements above)

One day, I'll dig out the FSL18 in the cellar and do a more professional report!

• Just 2,5 hours later, the CNR ratios have dropped by ~1,5dB... still much better than before today, but not the dizzy heights of earlier
• The drop in CNR seems to be accompanied by SS drops of 2%-pts, from ~55% to 53%.

[A scatter plot of historic CNR v SS values for my system, shows that ~50% SS is below cutoff/threshold for successful QPSK demodulation, but already that 58-60 results in 8-10dB CNR - so I tend not to bother reporting SS values]

 

[rodscha]

Hello Alec
it would be interesting for me to know how much better a Gilbertini performs against "brico-dépot" stuff(an axil 90cm now which seems to get me whatever I ask it to do...
when is the weakest signal from C5?

 

[alec]

Hi rodscha,

I'll post the info as soon as I receive the dish and get it fitted. I've also ordered a pair of inline signal boosters (see my last post) after verifying that the friend I mentioned is still receiving all relevant 2F channels 24/7 on a 70 cm dish.She's probably just in a local hotspot where "a dustbin lid and a bent coathanger" would pull in everything, but I figured that for 10 EUR it's at least worth a try. Might just tip the balance by offsetting some of the losses in the cables.

Like Gigioman I also noted a much stronger signal yesterday, despite bad weather - 4/7 was viewable on the Toppy with no breakup at all (quality reaching 80% at times, viewable with a few artefacts on the less-sensitive Foxsat) until around 18:00 and didn't disappear until much later in the evening. I normally lose signal quality on Ch 5 entirely by 17:00 - 19:00. It's normally strongest during the morning (~8:00 to 12:00).

 

[PaulR]

...I've also ordered a pair of inline signal boosters (see my last post) after verifying that the friend I mentioned is still receiving all relevant 2F channels 24/7 on a 70 cm dish.She's probably just in a local hotspot where "a dustbin lid and a bent coathanger" would pull in everything, but I figured that for 10 EUR it's at least worth a try. Might just tip the balance by offsetting some of the losses in the cables...

Just remind us again how long the cables are? Frankly, I'd be amazed if they make any positive difference if they're less than 30m.

 

[alec]

Just remind us again how long the cables are? Frankly, I'd be amazed if they make any positive difference if they're less than 30m.

A bit less than that - probably 25 m max. I think the bill was for about 70 m for 3 connections, 1 quite a bit shorter though - and thinking about it, the shorter one that runs to the Topfield, which has better signal quality. Hmmm - I wonder??.

The cable runs inside are 12 or 13 years old - not sure of the quality although pre-2F changeover there were no problems. I replaced the weather-deteriorated (short) external sections a couple of years ago, so luckily I don't need to make any cuts/joins or get the ladder out to test the boosters.

I am just as sceptical but having seen the results nearby I thought it was worth 10 EUR and a few minutes' work to try it. The amps are on order from a French supplier, so should be here in a couple of days.

 

[PaulR]

A bit less than that - probably 25 m max. I think the bill was for about 70 m for 3 connections, 1 quite a bit shorter though...

The cable runs inside are 12 or 13 years old - not sure of the quality although pre-2F changeover there were no problems. I replaced the weather-deteriorated (short) external sections a couple of years ago, so luckily I don't need to make any cuts/joins or get the ladder out to test the boosters...

Honestly, you'd be better off replacing the pieces of cable inside. In fact, if you were to replace every scrap of cable with three, new, uninterrupted cable runs from LNB to receiver that would be the best solution.

 

[alec]

Honestly, you'd be better off replacing the pieces of cable inside. In fact, if you were to replace every scrap of cable with three, new, uninterrupted cable runs from LNB to receiver that would be the best solution.

I agree - had the same idea but the work, "earache" and redecoration (where conduits under plaster and wallpaper have to be opened up etc.) involved means I want to try other ideas first, to make sure.

If other channels were affected there would be more sympathy - or even pressure - for rewiring but with 100/100 reception on everything but 2F it's hard to persuade "la patronne".

On a nicer day (it's wet and very bleak at the moment) I'll try a direct connection from the LNB with a shorter piece of cable as a comparison.

 

[PaulR]

On a nicer day ... I'll try a direct connection from the LNB with a shorter piece of cable as a comparison.

That'll be the "Eureka" day!

 

[mesaka]

Reception report (after upgrades!)

Dish (now) 95 x 100 (nominal) Schwaiger SPI 100 from Thomson clear 80cm
LNB (now) MTI black ultra from Humax quad

Humax Freesat HDR, Grundig sky box
Longish (20 m -odd) cable run, one join (inside) for sky box.

Frankfurt-am-Main, Germany

Under the old equipment specifications I had lost all of the Channel 5 channels and only got BBC HD with clear weather. Now Channel 5 set still have a relatively low tolerance for heavyish rain (especially in afternoons) but BBC HD coming in loud and strong. On an average day Channel 5 is strength 90% and quality around 65% on the Humax.All other channels are rock solid except for the very worst storms.

 

[wallycharlo]

Have noticed a considerable signal strength drop on 2f tonight particularly 11023H it's gone down to ca 30% and below whereas it had been 40% worst case before tonight.

 

[alec]

No reception (signal quality below threshold) on all 2F channels today since around 12:30.

Update on the inline boosters - arrived and fitted today, experiment a failure (as widely expected but worth a try).

 

[Lazarus]

Where in the cable run did you fit them?

Are you positive you inserted them the right way round ......................... ? (Easy to misinterpret the pictograms/labelling)

 

[alec]

About 3 m from the dish (existing join at the nearest point inside the house). Signal strength unaffected, quality reduced on all receivable channels - in some cases causing pixellation.

Tried one reversed just in case (I agree, the labelling/case markings are confusing) - lower strength on all channels but perhaps slightly higher quality on receivable ones. No effect on 2F.

 

[Lazarus]

Ah, well: Worth a try!

 

[hairybadger]

About 3 m from the dish (existing join at the nearest point inside the house). Signal strength unaffected, quality reduced on all receivable channels - in some cases causing pixellation.

Tried one reversed just in case (I agree, the labelling/case markings are confusing) - lower strength on all channels but perhaps slightly higher quality on receivable ones. No effect on 2F.

I'm near Geneva and receive 28.2E all beams without problems on a T-90 centred on 19.2E. The total cable run is about 7m. Although I had no need for it I tried adding an inline amplifier just after the LNB just to see what happened. Signal strength - up, signal quality - well down

 

[mesaka]

No reception (signal quality below threshold) on all 2F channels today since around 12:30.

Update on the inline boosters - arrived and fitted today, experiment a failure (as widely expected but worth a try).

I had the same problems yesterday. Perhaps they are tweaking output somehow. Otherwise I guess weather conditions? I have signal right now...

 

[hairybadger]

I noticed signal quality down on 11023H last night - 72% as opposed to the 78% or so that is normally. No rain or wind, but I don't remember if there was cloud cover or not. Certainly the other TPs were all pretty normal.

 

[caseyjay]

#Alec, I think I am a little further north west from you (near St. Gaudens in 31, France) and have 0%/no service on C5 package since end November. Just got around to tweaking the dish/skew but no difference to 2F channels. Humax says 80Signal/70Quality on average across the channels.

Have experienced picture loss in rain/storm over past few years across all channels so guessing dish size is the challenge - 80cm Optex, about 6 yrs old..

Interested to hear where you got your new dish from as am thinking about a 100cm one...

 

[sonnetpete]

Interested to hear where you got your new dish from as am thinking about a 100cm one...

I've used hxxp://www.2galli.fr/boutique/liste_rayons.cfm before and had excellent service. He has a good selection of dishes of all sizes but particularly 1M and upwards.

 

[alec]

Hi Casejay,

#Alec, I think I am a little further north west from you (near St. Gaudens in 31, France) and have 0%/no service on C5 package since end November. Just got around to tweaking the dish/skew but no difference to 2F channels. Humax says 80Signal/70Quality on average across the channels.

Have experienced picture loss in rain/storm over past few years across all channels so guessing dish size is the challenge - 80cm Optex, about 6 yrs old..

Interested to hear where you got your new dish from as am thinking about a 100cm one...

Ordered mine (100 cm Gibertini) from the same website as sonnetpete - waiting delivery. Excellent service with the new LNB I ordered from there - here in 2 days. Maybe the LNB is the reason for my better strength/quality on non-2F channels (generally 100/95-100) as we apparently have the same dish and mine is a lot older.
Apart from a few odd pixels, I also get nothing on all C5 channels on the Humax. The Topfield is a bit better - 4/seven is sometimes viewable in the daytime with a disturbed picture on C5 but this may be due to shorter/higher quality cabling. Replacement of the cables to the Humax is on the jobs list.