Astra 2G: Pre-Testing Phase

[timo_w2s]

From the SES news pages:

ASTRA 2G, which completes the current replacement programme at 28.2/28.5 degrees East, was successfully launched at the end of December 2014. The satellite is currently undertaking an interim mission, after which in-orbit testing will be completed prior to its entry into service during the second quarter of 2015.

http://www.ses.com/4233325/news/2015/20659801

 

[timo_w2s]

I posted this on another forum but I thought I'd add it here too. It shows the differences in Astra 2G's Europe footprint over the UK compared to 2E and 2F.

The images are taken off SES's official iPad app and suggest 2G Europe beam won't be good news for Scotland or Ireland in its current form. As a result I don't think it'll be used much, if at all, at 28E for TV.

I'm just replying to myself to make this clearer to anyone who is reading this, I'm not going mad. Well, maybe just a little.

I've had a look at SES's GoogleEarth footprint map on the PC and it's significantly different to the SES iPad app version. Not sure if or when this was updated but the attached footprint from GoogleEarth shows the 2G Europe's 50cm limit (I think, or 45cm limit, it's not clear what the lines refer to but it's stronger than the 60cm limit which is the second line out from the centre) footprint covers pretty much all of Ireland and everything but the very north of Scotland and so looks much more usable than the version on the iPad.

This rather goes against my previous argument that 2G Europe would be useless for Sky. I don't know what footprint is more correct now and I think I should not worry about it any more and we'll just see what happens when 2G arrives at 28E. Maybe it'll be used, maybe it won't. ;)

 

[timo_w2s]

OK, last post about this for now... After overlaying the iPad inner limit with the GoogleEarth version of the 2G Europe footprint I can see it matches the overall shape. So I'm guessing the iPad is showing the 45cm dish limit and the GoogleEarth version is showing the 50cm dish limit although neither are labelled so it's an educated guess.

 

[Fisty McB]

I've noticed that a few Zone 1 dishes have recently been springing up locally for new Sky installs. I'm guessing that once 2G comes into full service they're hoping that any remaining services from 2A & Eutelsat 28A will transfer over and that a Zone 1 dish will be satisfactory then. ATM I'd imagine that some of the 28A channels on the fixed beam would be touch & go here on a Zone 1 dish in the rain. Funny thing is I have a Zone 1 dish lying in storage, but I'm not planning to set it up until 2G is at 28 East.

 

[timo_w2s]

I've noticed that a few Zone 1 dishes have recently been springing up locally for new Sky installs. I'm guessing that once 2G comes into full service they're hoping that any remaining services from 2A & Eutelsat 28A will transfer over and that a Zone 1 dish will be satisfactory then. ATM I'd imagine that some of the 28A channels on the fixed beam would be touch & go here on a Zone 1 dish in the rain. Funny thing is I have a Zone 1 dish lying in storage, but I'm not planning to set it up until 2G is at 28 East.

If the Russian space news website can be believed 2G can't cover much of what is left on 2A at the moment so I think the majority of Transponders will transfer over to 2F or 2E. For all we know the remaining 28A frequency range could go to UK spots which would be nice and strong on a zone 1 dish too.

I hope they do have some kind of 2G Europe transmission that we can receive easily, just so we can get an idea on the signal levels it puts out. If it's just some obscure data feed like they have on 2C at the moment it'll be hard to check for most people.

 

[Fisty McB]

If I was to take a guess what might happen, I'd say when 2G is to come into service some shuffling of transponders (maybe those on UK spot beams) from 2E to 2F might happen without changing frequency, freeing up 2E & 2F to take on more pan-European transponders. It's possible that transmissions currently on 28A widebeams might go on to UK spot beams, but I suspect that some broadcasters might wish to remain on pan-European beams. For example the current NHK World HD broadcasts on 28A are the only one of its kind in Europe on Ku Band whereas its SD channel is on 19 & 13 East. Also the 12.5 to 12.75GHz frequencies that transferred from Eutelsat to SES went on to pan-Euro beams instead of the UK spot. The end result being a "load balance" between 2E/F/G for sufficient satellite life & backup at the position.

Nevertheless the likes of Arqiva that rent these transponders out to have capacity for third party broadcasters might do some technical configurations to help some channels that might struggle with the apparent increase in transmission costs SES have compared to Eutelsat, for example have one transponder convert to DVB-S2 8PSK with TV channels in AVC on a UK spot beam which if the current ITV & SES tests work successfully with 3/4 and 5/6 FEC rates, they could cram a significant amount of channels into one transponder for broadcasters for whom pan-Euro coverage isn't a factor for them. Of course such channels lose out on viewers with DVB-S only receivers, but I'd imagine the proportion of satellite viewers in the UK in that position is constantly decreasing.

 

[timo_w2s]

I also think there will be some shuffling of transponders when the time comes. What I'm really curious to see is what happens to the current Eut 28A frequencies as they are different to what SES tend to use in that band. Could SES have built their satellites to operate on the wide band frequencies used by Eutelsat or will they revert to their own narrow transponder configuration to match the rest in the lower KU band?

 

[C0re]

I think this:

or will they revert to their own narrow transponder configuration to match the rest in the lower KU band?

The same happened in the higher KU band 12.5 - 12.75

 

[hvdh]

Could SES have built their satellites to operate on the wide band frequencies used by Eutelsat or will they revert to their own narrow transponder configuration to match the rest in the lower KU band?

Assuming the old SES factsheet is correct that included ranges and transponder count and -width, combined with the tsenki.com info, I think 2G will have default Astra frequency plan everywhere except for Africa beam. My guess:
Europe:
52 * FSS 26 MHz: 10700...11290 & 11450...11700
24 * BSS 33 MHz: 11700...12190
Africa:
18 * FSS 36 MHz: 10950...11200 & 11450...11700 (not filled completely)

 

[timo_w2s]

I think it was @Marcus_21 's PDFs that suggested that they would be 36MHz wide in band A where 28A is current transmitting, split over the three satellites (4 each) to cover the existing 12 transponders. I don't know where this information came from or if it's just a guess on his behalf but I must admit I'm a bit sceptical about this whole thing too.

The problem with this arrangement is there is no backup between the satellites in this band, if one satellite was to fail or used elsewhere there would be a gap in the band. I did wonder if these transponders would be hired out at a cheaper rate as they wouldn't have the same full SES redundancy as other transponders (which was always the case with 28A too when Eutelsat was operating on its own band except for a very brief time when 28B joined it) or even if these are some of the transponders SES is reportedly going to be leasing back to Eutelsat. Could both satellite operators also have an understanding that should there be a problem with 2E/2F/2G then either of them could find an old satellite to use as a backup for this band A range? (Seems a bit unlikely to me though that SES would want to risk having another Eutelsat owned satellite at 28.5E incase there is another sneaky takeover, perhaps 28A will stay on as a backup or even continue broadcasting for a little while longer)

There's still that little issue of the Freesat EPG transponder that is on Eutelsat's frequency 36MHz plan. Freesat have said that there will be no issue but I don't think they have specified why there is no issue. Surely if the default Freesat EPG frequency is going to change they would be sorting it out very soon to make sure boxes have updated firmware, etc before 28A is shut down unless, of course, SES have said that the existing frequency will continue via Astra?

 

[hvdh]

For band A on the Tsenki.com site, Astra 2E has 11360...11450 and Astra 2G has 11200...11290.
Yes and for Astra 2F (launched in Kourou), we only assume it has the remaining 11290...11360.
I agree with your arguments, things look strange and fragile, some of the info must be wrong...

 

[william-1]

They had plenty of time to change the transponder frequencies on Astra 2G but as SES do not update their data sheets very often we will have to wait for the testing phase,

More speculation here about Eutelsat 28A:-
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?p=76712060

 

[Lazarus]

The Humax Tech. Director stated that the Freesat spec. provides for all compliant boxes to autodetect and apply a change in Default Transponder.

So that's all right, then ..............................

 

[william-1]

A

The Humax Tech. Director stated that the Freesat spec. provides for all compliant boxes to autodetect and apply a change in Default Transponder.

So that's all right, then ..............................

All of my satellite receivers can do this on Astra satellites @ 28.2 east & 19.2 east via the Master Transponder if you select Network Search.

 

[william-1]

NIT (Network Information Table) on Astra satellites @ 28.2 east & 19.2 east,

NIT can be used to update most independent brands of satellite receivers that do not have a blind scan when 2G finally moves to 28.2 east to find the new frequencies as was the case when SES Astra 2F replaced Eutelsat 28A in the telecom band 12500 to 12750,

When searching channels using NIT, the receiver will first Auto tune the TP’s in the receiver’s database. Then it will search for any NIT information which may be broadcast by the satellite service provider from the signal available and subsequently tune those TP’s which are not included in the receiver database.

NIT only works on Astra satellites if you try this method on Turksat 42E or Eutelsat satellites it does not have the desired effect.

 

[timo_w2s]

Yeah, true, if the Freesat box can use the NIT data from any transponder then it's bound to find the right home transponder eventually.

By the way, I'm sure my Technomate and DrHD boxes can read the NIT from non Astra satellites.

 

[william-1]

Yeah, true, if the Freesat box can use the NIT data from any transponder then it's bound to find the right home transponder eventually.

By the way, I'm sure my Technomate and DrHD boxes can read the NIT from non Astra satellites.

NIT on Hotbird is for certain packages that only the official boxes can read maybe it is the same for other satellite packages elsewhere ?

 

[statalite]

From the SES news pages:


http://www.ses.com/4233325/news/2015/20659801

I would imagine only SES knows, would we be looking more at the end of the second quarter, end of June time would everyone say?

 

[M60]

If SES managed to have X Band transmissions live at 21.5E by the 15th December, as was reported, then surely by the end of next weekend they'll have completed the three Month ITU regulatory requirement and we could be seeing 2G heading off east to it's testing slot at 43.5E, time will tell.

 

[Llew]

An update on 2G since my last beacon screengrab three months ago. Certainly not in any hurry to move yet.