BBC ITV etc phasing out SD services on satellite in 2023

[dmaavrigdo]

As I can't now see any BBC HD channels I'm going to be investigating horn antennas.

That's not going to work. It would have to be 54 metres long to beat a 1.8 dish!

 

[dvdfilm]

Probably not in the medium term, but if the launch of this happens before the new Bilsdale transmitter is in service, it's likely to carry BBC One North East & Cumbria HD at first (like it does in SD at the moment). ITV HD may also switch to the North East version for the same time.

But why would they put back the Red screen on Satback in the medium term? If on Freeview every region will have local news in HD, what sense would a Red screen have on Satback?

 

[Adam792]

But why would they put back the Red screen on Satback in the medium term? If on Freeview every region will have local news in HD, what sense would a Red screen have on Satback?

For the reasons stated by @Fisty McB .

It's not a regular feed, it's a back-up for terrestrial transmitters across the whole UK. There's only room for one version of BBC One HD, which they can change to whatever version they want depending on what transmitters need to use it.

 

[dvdfilm]

I did some calculations and I'm surprised they didn't find the space to keep a single network SD version of BBC One and Two.
In fact they currently have 4 transponders with SD channels, that could carry around 20 HD channels while they just need 15 channels, so the space would be there to leave a SD version of One and Two.

 

[ozumo]

There'll be an SD version of BBC One & Two until at least 21st March 2024. After that I guess it depends on the size of any uproar like there was when they wanted to close the non-connected red button text service.

 

[dvdfilm]

There'll be an SD version of BBC One & Two until at least 21st March 2024. After that I guess it depends on the size of any uproar like there was when they wanted to close the non-connected red button text service.

This confirms my calculations were right, there Is enough space, it's surprising how they will justify cutting off services to licence fee payers who have SD equipment

 

[Fisty McB]

I did some calculations and I'm surprised they didn't find the space to keep a single network SD version of BBC One and Two.
In fact they currently have 4 transponders with SD channels, that could carry around 20 HD channels while they just need 15 channels, so the space would be there to leave a SD version of One and Two.

If money was no object, I'm sure the BBC would have no reason not to continue current SD services for the foreseeable future and simply rent out additional capacity from SES at 28E (there's a good bit going spare up there ATM).

However, money is an object and the BBC are currently in the process of making savings. Two English regions (Cambridge aka East (West) & Oxford) are closing down in the next few weeks with Cambridge merging into a single East region, can't remember where Oxford is going to merge into (sorry!)

I'm only guessing here, but there might also be an issue with the satellite uplinking/playout system for SD that is reaching nearly or at end-of-life.

At present, all BBC services at 28E (with the exception of the BBC Two NI HD test service) is spread across six transponders as follows (those with an asterik beside them have a HD simulcast) with BBC Three & CBBC plus BBC Four & CBeebies counting as one stream each as they timeshare...

BBC One English Regions

Channel Isles
East (East)
East (West)
East Yorkshire & Lincolnshire
London
North East & Cumbria
North West
Oxford
South
South East
South West
West
West Midlands
Yorkshire & North Midlands

BBC One "National" Regions

England (HD Only)*
Northern Ireland*
Scotland*
Wales*

BBC Two Regions

England*
Northern Ireland
Wales*

BBC Scottish Channels

BBC Scotland*
BBC Alba

BBC UK-Wide Channels

BBC Three/CBBC*
BBC Four/CBeebies*
BBC News*
BBC Parliament
BBC Red Button

Total SD Services - 27
Total HD Services - 10

-------

The plan for the BBC's satellite TV transmissions from April 2024 is to have all in HD as follows...

BBC One English Regions

Channel Isles
East
East Yorkshire & Lincolnshire
London
North East & Cumbria
North West
South
South East
South West
West
West Midlands
Yorkshire & North Midlands

BBC One "National" Regions

Northern Ireland
Scotland
Wales

BBC Two Regions

England
Northern Ireland
Wales

BBC Scottish Channels

BBC Scotland
BBC Alba

BBC UK-Wide Channels

BBC Three/CBBC
BBC Four/CBeebies
BBC News
BBC Parliament
BBC Red Button

Total HD Services - 25

The above figures doesn't include the radio services already broadcast, though these are largely inconsequential in the greater scheme of things.

At present the BBC uses two DVB-S2 transponders for 10 HD streams, 5 per transponder. If it were to stick to this from April 2024, they would only require five transponders instead of the six presently in use.

Alternatively they may be looking at what ITV presently do with six HD services per DVB-S2 transponder and try their hand at that. They could comfortably fit six into three transponders, but a fourth would need to be measured to carry seven - a possibility here would be to chance putting in services here that aren't normally "bitrate intensive" and could chance their arm at certainly slipping BBC Parliament in here as well as BBC News. Radio services could then be spread over the other three transponders.

From the above calculations, I'd reckon that one motivation for the HD upgrade programme is to both save on transponder rental costs and end duplication of services in SD & HD. While the BBC could retain six transponders in a post April 2024 transmission system, there is easily scope for them to reduce that, wherever it may reduced to five or even four will depend on internal BBC decision making.

And without knowing the more technical details as to what will happen in Q1 2023, what looks almost certain to happen is that three of the current DVB-S transponders will in phases be turned over to DVB-S2 transmission, with one DVB-S transponder remaining in place until April 2024. This will require some reshuffling of SD (and probably current HD) services during this time to allow changes to be made until by April one DVB-S transponder is left carrying the following...

BBC One (UK)
BBC Two (UK)
BBC Three/CBBC
BBC Four/CBeebies
BBC News
BBC Parliament
BBC Scotland
BBC Alba
BBC Red Button

...plus the BBC Radio stations on satellite.

The only way to continue broadcasting a BBC One or Two SD service compatible in its present form is on a DVB-S transponder - the BBC I'd be at least 99% certain will be accommodating their HD only services on DVB-S2 transponders, so there's no real space left available for such an event.

Just to finish, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the April 2024 date - or some time around it - will end up being the "sunset" date for DVB-S MPEG2 SD broadcasts aimed at the UK, not just for the BBC but also for ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 & Sky, with all future transmissions from these broadcasters at least going over to DVB-S2 MPEG4, either in HD or SD.

 

[ozumo]

BBC One HD rollout / SD removal dates:

Region	Sky	Freesat
Channel Islands	14/02/2023	13/02/2023
East	31/01/2023	30/01/2023
East Midlands	31/01/2023	30/01/2023
East Yorkshire and Lincs	07/02/2023	06/02/2023
London	14/02/2023	13/02/2023
North East & Cumbria	21/02/2023	20/02/2023
North West (inc. Isle of Man)	21/02/2023	20/02/2023
Northern Ireland (SD removal)	24/01/2023	23/01/2023
Scotland (SD removal)	21/02/2023	20/02/2023
South	24/01/2023	23/01/2023
South East	23/02/2023	22/02/2023
South West	14/02/2023	13/02/2023
Wales (SD removal)	07/02/2023	06/02/2023
West	14/02/2023	13/02/2023
West Midlands	07/02/2023	06/02/2023
Yorkshire	21/02/2023	20/02/2023
BBC Alba	07/02/2023	06/02/2023
BBC RB1	14/02/2023	13/02/2023
BBC Parliament	21/02/2023	20/02/2023

 

[woborny]

And on looking on Freesat, when your region goes HD you may not have access to the "BBC One SD" version at all - could be an issues for those on the fringe with wrong size dishes. Just checked on mine set to BBC One South, which went HD on 101 this lunchtime, and nowhere on the EPG is there a BBC one SD using 12442...

 

[mikeisyou]

BBC One HD rollout dates:

Region	Sky	Freesat
Northern Ireland	24/01/2023	23/01/2023
Scotland	21/02/2023	20/02/2023
Wales	07/02/2023	06/02/2023

In Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales on these dates given will be the removal of the SD variants of BBC One and BBC Two. In Scotland it will just be BBC One Scotland SD closing because Scotland no longer has a BBC Two variant and uses the same version as England.

 

[curly wurly]

Does anyone know if the BBC News channel has been taken off SD yet ? I'm unable to receive it anymore.

 

[lovelyperson]

Does anyone know if the BBC News channel has been taken off SD yet ? I'm unable to receive it anymore.

SD is now on 12422 H 27500 2/3

 

[curly wurly]

Thanks lovelyperson - much obliged.

 

[Butacas]

The signal of the frequency 12,422 H is somewhat weaker.

 

[Analoguesat]

The signal of the frequency 12,422 H is somewhat weaker.

Bigger dish required.

 

[Nalleman]

The signal of the frequency 12,422 H is somewhat weaker.

I'm getting it at around 10 dB here in southern parts of Sweden. No problem.
FEC 2/3 also means a bit bigger margin in bad weather.

 

[Butacas]

I'm getting it at around 10 dB here in southern parts of Sweden. No problem.
FEC 2/3 also means a bit bigger margin in bad weather.

It is also received here, throughout the day. With better signal in the morning, in all the frequencies of the beam of the United Kingdom.

 

[Analoguesat]

It is also received here, throughout the day. With better signal in the morning, in all the frequencies of the beam of the United Kingdom.

View attachment 147265

You have a year to enjoy 12422H It will shut down early 2024.. Then you will have to hope you can get the harder to receive dvb-s2 8psk transmissions.

 

[Nalleman]

You have a year to enjoy 12422H It will shut down early 2024.. Then you will have to hope you can get the harder to receive dvb-s2 8psk transmissions.

Fortunatley are the other transponders used by BBC stronger at my place (10,5 - 12,5 dB ) and I have no problem getting them i DVB-S2 8psk. If they decide to use another FEC let's say 8/9 or 9/10 worst case it might be a harder nut to crack.

 

[dmaavrigdo]

12168V is the only BBC HD transponder I'm getting at this time. Will it be going too?