C-Band Extended

[John]

im new one with C band what is the c band extended this frecuencies are not listed on kingof sat or lyngsat for example.
I have a 1.8m televes dish and titanium \ zinwell lnbs. both working fine on 40.5W 55W and 58W

The phrase 'Extended C-band' is used in a couple of ways - many years ago it referred to a C-band lnb or lnbf that would go lower in frequency than the standard bottom end of 3.6 GHz .. ie: extended down to 3.4 GHz. In todays world an Extended C-band is usually known as an lnb or lnbf that covers the part of the band 4.5 GHz to 4.8 GHz. It is possible to get a C-band lnb that will cover from 3.4 to 4.8 GHz all in one unit but they are very very expensive. I use a middle of the road Norsat 8000RI which covers 3.62 to 4.8 GHz and is a reasonable price. It is also possible to buy a 4.5 to 4.8 GHz lnb or lnbf . Channels that use the band 4.5 to 4.8 GHz are listed on Lyngsat / Flysat / K.O.S etc - check listings for 40.5 West & 65 West. ** A 1.8 mtr dish will be struggling to lock any of the 4.5 to 4.8 GHz signals on a day to day basis - i use a 2.2 mtr PF dish and get reasonable performance, a 3mtr - 3.8mtr is far better suited to give reliable signal lock and a decent margin. There are some cheap Chinese extended lnb's available - see one of forum member 'Moonbase' thread somewhere.

 

[moonbase]

ok and the pipe is used for what ? improve if i put one pipe to my titanium lnb?

The polo pipe is a polariser barrel, it replaces the dielecetric plate that is inserted in the Titanium LNBF for RHCP/LHCP signals. Please note that the Titanium LNB will not receive the extended C band signals, it does not cover the 4500 MHx to 4800 MHz range. To receive the C band extended signals you need an LNB that covers that range.

From tests I have done, a Titanium LNBF without the dielectric plate and inserted into a polo pipe gives higher signal levels that a Titanium LNBF with the dielectric plate on 40.5W

 

[Channel Hopper]

The polo pipe is a polariser barrel, it replaces the dielecetric plate that is inserted in the Titanium LNBF for RHCP/LHCP signals. Please note that the Titanium LNB will not receive the extended C band signals, it does not cover the 4500 MHx to 4800 MHz range. To receive the C band extended signals you need an LNB that covers that range.

That is not strictly true, the LNB is a downconverter, as long as your receiving device is able to tune outside the usual limits , either by software revision, or a change of front end electronics, then it could conceivably capture and work with signals into the extended bands, above or below the actual specification of the LNB. There are some filters built in to create 'end stops' in coverage, but these vary from model to model and do not cut out the signal completely.

Some spectrum analysers on the market have a seamless transition between the UHF and lF bands, making testing outside the usual parameters a doddle, but a switchable converter such as as the Global 250MHz shifters can be used to good effect if there is no access to one.

 

[moonbase]

That is not strictly true...

A Titanium LNBF will not receive the C band signals in the range 4.5 GHz to 4.8 GHZ unless the electronics are modified by the user. My reply to "antrabe" was made on the possibly wrong assumption that he was using off the shelf equipment and not going to start modifying electronic circuitry or software. In that context he will not be successful with a Titanium LNB to receive 4.5 GHz to 4.8 GHz signals from 40.5W.

 

[Channel Hopper]

I sense an experiment coming on.

The IF frequency for reception at 4.8 - 4.5 GHz on a standard C-Band LNB is in the high VHF/low UHF, there are plenty of upconverters on the market that shift the resulting spectrum up to where a standard DVB-S receiver can be used.

In terms of familiarity the following brand is one forum members have posted about before now, I cannot comment on the claimed 10ppm stability though.

http://j3.rf-explorer.com/download/docs/RF Explorer Upconverter datasheet.pdf

 

[moonbase]

I sense an experiment coming on...

I and several other members of the forum are keenly awaiting the results of your experiment, please keep us updated.

 

[moonbase]

im new one with C band what is the c band extended this frecuencies are not listed on kingof sat or lyngsat for example.
I have a 1.8m televes dish and titanium \ zinwell lnbs. both working fine on 40.5W 55W and 58W

@antrabe

I have pasted a link below to a topic about the Titanium C Band PLL LNB. In this topic there is a discussion of a modification for c band extended frequencies.

Titanium PLL C Band LNBs - SatsUK

The best person on this forum to ask for technical advice on electronic circuitry in LNB's is forum member "s-band". If you send "s-band" a private message they have agreed to help you.

 

[Anonymous_1]

Just FYI, but ESPN Brazil is very often available at 40.5°W 4641 LHCP (Cinelive with EPL match)

few screenshots of the last past days: (example)

 

[Channel Hopper]

I and several other members of the forum are keenly awaiting the results of your experiment, please keep us updated.

I only have a Global unit here that is fixed to 500MHz up/down though it does work rather well for other stuff, the RF Explorer device mentioned has a calibration system that gives upconversion somewhat beyond the 530MHz specified. No need to play with the outdoor equipment at all.

https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/5560f.pdf

 

[moonbase]

...No need to play with the outdoor equipment at all...

Oh my mistake, I thought that you were going to attempt to show us that you were able to receive 4.5 Ghz to 4.8 GHz signals in C Band with a Titanium LNBF using that RF Explorer device, rather than just hypothesise on the topic.

 

[s-band]

@antrabe

I have pasted a link below to a topic about the Titanium C Band PLL LNB. In this topic there is a discussion of a modification for c band extended frequencies.

Titanium PLL C Band LNBs - SatsUK

I can't remember if the Tit IF went down to 250MHz without mods, I think I had to do something to extend the LF response. If it does, it would need the filter modifying or removing. If you remove it, as I did, the Tit is on the edge of instability. Once modified as my link, it works OK up to about 4.75GHz. The only lock I managed was an ACM/VCM TP on Rascom 2.9E on a 1.5m dish. I came to the conclusion that it was OK but not really worth the effort. The Norsat full band or your (moonbase) Chinese ones make more sense.

I only have a Global unit here that is fixed to 500MHz up/down though it does work rather well for other stuff, the RF Explorer device mentioned has a calibration system that gives upconversion somewhat beyond the 530MHz specified. No need to play with the outdoor equipment at all.

https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/5560f.pdf

If you've got a spec an, check the output of the tit down to 250MHz. to see if there's any noise, I don't think there will be much. Try bypassing the filter, it would be interesting to see if it works without switching the LO as per my mod. If that works and you've got a TBS69x3 you might get something in the extended band.

That mixer would work but it's a pain to use without the eval board which is not cheap. A mini-circuits one off Ebay would be easier but you'll need an LO and filters. Once again, easier to use a Norsat or Moonbase's.

 

[Channel Hopper]

'...To receive the C band extended signals you need an LNB that covers that range....'

I am not the originator of the above erroneous statement.

 

[moonbase]

...That mixer would work but it's a pain to use without the eval board which is not cheap. A mini-circuits one off Ebay would be easier but you'll need an LO and filters. Once again, easier to use a Norsat or Moonbase's.

Agreed, it seems to be a simpler option and possibly a cheaper option to purchase a dedicated off the shelf LNB that is designed to operate in the 4.5 Ghz to 4.8 GHz range. All that needs to be done is bolt the LNB to a WR229 flange feed and fix it to the dish. Norsat offer several types of LNB that meet the need and there are also the Chinese LNB's.

The three Norsat LNB's that I am aware of are the 8000RI model (range 3.625 - 4.8 GHz) and the 5250I / 5500I models (range 4.5 - 4.8 GHz). The Chinese model is listed with range of 4.5 - 4.8 Ghz but in my tests that are documented on this forum the detectable frequency range is 3.92 - 4.8 Ghz. However, it should be noted at the extremity of 3.92 GHz the SNR dB reported from the Chinese LNB via EBS Pro is quite a bit lower than that detected by a normal LNB for the same frequency.

The Norsat 5250I and 5500I models might also work below their specified range but I have not got any of these to test.


I have pasted a link below to some of the test results I got with the Chinese LNB

C Band Extended LNB's (4.5 GHz - 4.8 GHz) - SatsUK

 

[moonbase]

'...To receive the C band extended signals you need an LNB that covers that range....'

I am not the originator of the above erroneous statement.

In my reply where I made the statement it was my intention to try to provide help to another forum member (antrabe) rather than confuse them with options about modifications to LNB circuitry. Forum member "John" made a helpful and informative post in reply to "antrabe" in post 81 of this topic and I thought it may help if I tried to follow that up with some useful input in post 82 where I made the statement that you have quoted.

In the context of using an off the shelf LNBF without modification I stand by my statement. However, I am happy to be proven wrong should that be the case once you have published the results of your indoor or outdoor tests. I and several other forum members are keenly awaiting the results of your experiment.

 

[Channel Hopper]

At least we agree there is no need to dismantle hermetically sealed electronics, though S-band's link to the Pin 20 mod on the RDA chip lends itself to more investigation, I would suggest this - in particular the 600MHz - is behind the ease at which the manufacturers can provide stock of 'extended' LNBs at short notice.

Antrabe has, or had more than one LNBF in his possession, a Zinwell, and so more opportunity to play than with the Titanium alone.

Currently my evenings are taken up working on X-band frequency items (which does include modifying C band kit to suit, but only the mechanical fittings). Daytime is split between work and family owing to their seasonal afflictions.

 

[Channel Hopper]

I looked a bit closer at that LNBF with the cut up Scalar feed.

 

[Anonymous_1]

65°W new: 4770 V 45000 5/6 4Kdocu.tv (promo)

 

[John]

@ 65 West Extended C-band
Been keeping an eye on these two low level & narrow frequencies that have been showing at different times for a while and then dropping. Very low level and seem to come definitely off the satellite position.
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[John]

65 West .... Another new narrow frequency to keep an eye on - seen ramping up and down tonight.
4710 Vertical.

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[Anonymous_1]

65W:
New for 4770 V

2 Eutelsat 65W (a 117W) promo (50 Hz & 60Hz) have joined the Docu TV 4 K promo
all in HEVC (1 in UHD)