Advice Needed please help me with my special situation

A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
707
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
So, I can understand you need the Zinwell switches, to respond correctly to the 11/15V for Hor/vert (and I guess also 0/22kHz to chose between 124E and 128E?).
The Zinwell switches, being receiver-fed, never supply more than 11/15 Volt on the LNB-inputs I guess.
And the Zinwell switch is made to feed not just the 11/15 Volt (or 13/18 Volt), but also the 22kHz, to the (quad or monoblock) LNBs.
(You're not using the flexports, right? I'm not sure how they work -- these inputs are not really explained in the manual, alas.)

However, when you fix external powering for your LNBs, you're not dependant on these features of the Zinwell switch I suppose.
You could have dual output LNBs or quatro output LNBs, with DC-blocked splitters connected to your Zinwells.
Many quatro LNBs can be powered by any (only one!) of their four ports; I've seen that tested.
(For some, even 11 volt might even be enough? I remembe vaguely reading a JULTEC presentation of LNBs needing only 9 to 10 volts; but I might be wrong.)
And I believe the 22kHz doesn't affect the quatro LNB, as it doesn't have an internal switch that wants to react to it. I don't remember reading much about that though, but I'm not into multiswitches, so that is not strange.

So I would think that with external power supply (or possibly even without?!?), you wouldn't need the (modified) monoblock anymore, or the 0/22kHz switch to eliminate the 22kHz.
So the simplest solution for you might be, to change the modified monoblock LNB, and see from there. The DC-through splitters might again be usable, then, when trying without external power.
And the LOFs in the receivers should probably be altered, of course.

I don't have multiswitches or quatro LNBs though; cannot test it for you. (And I am totally unfamilliar with dual output KU-LNBs.)

I hope my reasoning makes sense to you (as I was still thinking, while writing this post...).

greetz,
A33
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
Thanks for your reply. I think what you suggest is a good way to go. To use zinwell ms and quarto lnbs. It should work on most of the Japanese stbs. However, I have a stb called satella s2, which is like dreambox in Europe in its network "capability" and it doesn't allow changing LO to 10600. It allows 11300 and 11200 as well as 10678.

Is there any model or brand of quarto lnb that you recommend? I actually randomly purchased two quarto lnb of eBay before and the signal strength I got was worse than my 11300 quad lnb.

Maybe I should go ahead and request a feature to set lo to 10600 in the satella s2 forum. Then I can go ahead use quarto lnb and zinwell ms. The current way of using modified emp centauri ms, I am worried it might cause harm to my stb as it involves modification of the electronic component to work in a way not intended to. Maybe I am too concerned.
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
The satella s2 is indeed the one in your link. It's fta stb before the patch, or a firmware update. After a customised patch, it becomes a stb with "network" capability. The fta firmware one can set universal lo but after the patch, the ui becomes in Japanese only and lo is limited to certain values.

Also, before the patch one can even specifies to send 13v 18v to lnb. After patch it is limited to 11v 15v.
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
I have attached the screen shots of all the allowed values to LOs in the patched s2.
As far as I know, all quatro lnb have LO in 9750/10600.
If only there were quatro lnb with lo of 10750, or 10720, then that would be perfect.
 

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nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
In any case, I think I can use a zinwell ms and external voltage inserter as well as 11300 dual output lnb. I need to somehow block the voltage from the ms to the lnb, maybe through the use of dc-block splitters. That way 11300 lnb knows to send h or v to the respectively ms inputs by the voltage sent to it. Is it correct?
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
I have asked support at emp centauri about using splitters and ms together to achieve more stb setup. I asked if there will be issue if the 22k from one side of ms get sent to the other side and they said ms didn't care about the 22k. I assume it is the same for a zinwell. Therefore, I think the approach to use multiple zinwell ms, splitters, voltage inserter, and 11300 dual/quad lnb should work. I will find some time to test on this setup and let you know.

Also, may I ask for help from G33, on which smart splitter to buy or where to buy some? The splitter that passes power from ms1 when ms1 is sending power while passing power from ms2 when ms1 is not in use. Thanks.
 
A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
707
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
About use and modification of zinwell MS: the satelliteguys.us forum has more about that.
For instance: Naughty Mods III: 6x8 Switch with Power Insertion
For inspiration. ;)

For quatro LNB: Inverto Black Ultra is recommended often as a good LNB. But I've no idea how they compare to yours.

About the LOFs: Don't the japanese receivers have an IF-range from 950 to 2150 MHz?

Edit (added):
That way 11300 lnb knows to send h or v to the respectively ms inputs by the voltage sent to it. Is it correct?
11/15V is sent from receiver to MS, so the MS knows to chose which input port.
A dual output or quatro output LNB has a specific output on its port, as indicated, but you can connect it to any port of the MS. The only thing that happens, is that the receiver canb think it is a V channel instead of H (or vice versa), or that it is on another frequency (highband <-> lowband).



Greetz,
A33
 
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A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
707
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
BTW the testing of powering a quatro LNB on ANY port is in this (dutch) topic:
power on lnb via Technisat Bs4 Pro

Sorry, in dutch! But I'm glad I found this topic again, to confirm the ways one can set up things like this.

Greetz,
A33

Edit:
Also, may I ask for help from G33, on which smart splitter to buy or where to buy some? The splitter that passes power from ms1 when ms1 is sending power while passing power from ms2 when ms1 is not in use. Thanks.
Ah, you mean me (A33)?
Don't you get hits at google with terms like SAT priority switch, smart priority switch, sat vorrangschalter, sat prioritätsschalter, etc? I've never seen tests to compare them, I think they all would do fine.

BTW using these, you wouldn't have to use external power supply, just to remind.
 
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nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
Hello, it is me again.
As I said, I have a on line producing set of emp centauri 4x16 (mod), which is servicing my customers.
I used the other output of a quad 11300 lnb on each of my 124e and 128e for this test during xmas break when I returned Taiwan.
In the test, I used 2 zinwell mb68 6x8 ms and 4 splitters, and 4 online power inserters(12v, 18v).

I didn't take photos, but the setup is like the below for each zinwell 6x8:
zinwell mb68(either of the 4 ports of 22k on/off, 13v/18v)->4 way splitter->power inserter(which blocks dc from ms)->lnb

this way, I can combine as many as 4 zinwell mb68 and provide service to as many as 32 stbs.
Note that you may need to have as many as 4 port transformers to provide 13v x 2 /18v x 2.
In my case, I split the power transformer to provide dc to both of the 13v lnbs( 13v 22k off, 13v 22k on) and another split for 18v lnbs( 18v 22k off, 18v 22k on)

The test was a success. The signal q value I get from 4 way split zinwell is 2 higher than its counterpart in emp centauri.

I plan to try the same set up except this time I want to use a mod 11200 japanese lnbs, and the power transformer will be 12v and 15v for Japanese lnb standard.I
However, I am worried about 22k sent by ms, will it reach power inserter or even lnb?
If so, I need my 22k switch again. Also, the reason to the failure last time I use splitter and zinwell ms as well as mod 11200lnb.

Thanks.
 
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A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
707
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
The test was a success. The signal q value I get from 4 way split zinwell is 2 higher than its counterpart in emp centauri.
That's nice!
However, this test was just to test the splitting, if I understand you correctly? And the test didn't include the 22kHz by the Zinwell MS and the modified 0/22kHz monoblock?

It's been I while, and I had to read the whole topic again to refresh my memory what this topic was about.
Nice to read from you again. :-)

I plan to try the same set up except this time I want to use a mod 11200 japanese lnbs, and the power transformer will be 12v and 15v for Japanese lnb standard.I
However, I am worried about 22k sent by ms, will it reach power inserter or even lnb?
If so, I need my 22k switch again. Also, the reason to the failure last time I use splitter and zinwell ms as well as mod 11200lnb.
I'm not sure as to the answer to your question (as I indicated earlier), alas. Are your 4/1 splitters completely DC-blocked, or oneway DCblocked?
I would expect an slightly attenuated 22kHz signal through those, and interference in the 22kHz signal from the combined multiswitches. But if the 22kHz would be stably blocked by that ~ don't know.
Your 0/22kHz switch could be needed again. But that switch might again be confused by the interference in the 22kHz, as in your earlier test.

Another option for that may be: a "diplexer" or "UHF/SAT combiner". That combines/splits 0-900MHz from 950-2300MHz, so that port would attenuate the 22kHz even further (don't know if the non-used port should be terminated with an end-resistor). However I don't know if the effect of a diplexer would even be as strong as "blocking" the 22kHz. Would be interesting to see that tested by someone! (Don't know if I could find the diplexer I have stored somewhere, to test this effect....)
Sorry that I just can give options and opinions to this question
. :unsure
Edit: No, this would NOT be an option, I think. The satellite port should pass the 22kHz signal, or it wouldn't work properly for satellite. Alas.... I was thinking wrongly...
There are "22kHz tone blocking filters" on the market, I just saw on google.


Otherwise: I think there are more chances with this option: sacrifice one port of the 4/1 one-way DC-blocked switches (hope you have these?) for the power inserter line, and supply a somewhat higher voltage than your Zinwells give. That way the superimposed 22kHz would never 'win', I would guess, and would never reach your LNB. But... this is just an idea; I've never tested it myself.


By the way: LNBs with LOF 10750 are/were used in the USA/ North America (and maybe New Zealand), I read. They are called "standard LNB" or "standard linear LNB" (as opposed to "universal LNB"?). I don't know if they come in dual output versions, or twin versions.
Maybe that is of help?

Greetz,
A33
 
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A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
707
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
BTW2:
For the 22kHz problem: you could still try the modification of your Zinwells, to prevent 22kHz to leave the multiswitch.
Rereading the link in #28, it seems that you can cutoff power from the 22kHz-inputs very easily; and I assume (should be tested!) that includes the 22kHz signal. Then use the power inserter (externally, or as described in the link), and... DONE!

BTW (for my information): When only one receiver is connected to the Zinwell, does only the active MS-input carry voltage, or all four inputs?

greetz,
A33
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
Yes, in this test I didn't include the monoblock and I don't care about the 22k signal here, because my lnb is single LO 11300. No matter if 22k is on or off, it will use 11300 LO, unlike a universal lnb.

The 4/1 splitter is one way power pass, but I can't remember the direction.

I think I also read somewhere that there used to be a dual output single LO lnb which is like a quattro lnb. Unfortunately I never was able to find one sells them. If I could, it will be best.

I am also worried that the 22k signal would cause problem once I changed lnb to the mono block.

Looking at my current setup, zinwell 6x8 ms, 4/1 splitters, 11300 quad lnb, and power inserters.
It doesn't require any modification of the electronic component. I really should worry that it was the cause of the malfunctioning of one of my 2 s2.
It failed for the second time. The first time I sent it for repair. This time after I changed to the new setup, it broke a few days later.

I also noticed that the failed s2 was leaking electric current that I sometimes got shcked by touching the case of it this time when I returned.
This happened before I sent it for repair. As the leaked current would cause my slingbox 350 that was adjacent to it to disconnect.
I noticed it this time when I was back to Taiwan. I didn't know it was the cause of the 350 to disconnect sometimes. I do now.

My point was that maybe the broken s2 was just defective from the beginning. Thus, I had less intention to experiment further.
I emailed emp centauri support regarding if the mod of their ms would cause any harm. "The receiver would never know if it was connected to a standard or modified ms" I quoted his reply.

So, my conclusion is I probably will stop here, without further testing the monoblock with zinwell and power inserter. I think it may fail due to the 22k issue. Unless my other s2 would somehow behave weird. Then, I would worry about changing to the "all Japanese system way".
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
BTW2:
For the 22kHz problem: you could still try the modification of your Zinwells, to prevent 22kHz to leave the multiswitch.
Rereading the link in #28, it seems that you can cutoff power from the 22kHz-inputs very easily; and I assume (should be tested!) that includes the 22kHz signal. Then use the power inserter (externally, or as described in the link), and... DONE!

BTW (for my information): When only one receiver is connected to the Zinwell, does only the active MS-input carry voltage, or all four inputs?

greetz,
A33
I think only the activated ms input would carry voltage. Not tested.
 
A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
707
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
So, my conclusion is I probably will stop here, without further testing the monoblock with zinwell and power inserter. I think it may fail due to the 22k issue. Unless my other s2 would somehow behave weird. Then, I would worry about changing to the "all Japanese system way".
If it works to satisfaction, the motto is: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
So I can agree totally with your conclusion.

Greetz, and happy 2018,
A33
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
hello, everyone.
I am the op and I have some news to share and a very basic question to ask.
As a33 suggested in this thread that it might be best if I use a quattro lnb for my system of Japanese stbs and ms, because a quattro lnb sends 10600h/10600v regardless(?) of the voltage provided by stb. I said at that time that I could use a quattro lnb but because a stb called satella 2 didn't allow me to use 10600 LO.
Well, after I posted and requested on their forum, they added the option to allow 10600 LO.
That means I finally can use a quattro lnb for my system.
My basic question is that if a quattro lnb does send fixed 10600h/10600v/9750h/9750v regardless of the voltage it is provided. Many thanks for your help.
 
A

a33

Specialised Contributor
Messages
707
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Rebox RE-9000
My Location
NL
Well, after I posted and requested on their forum, they added the option to allow 10600 LO.
That means I finally can use a quattro lnb for my system.
That's nice! :):):)

My basic question is that if a quattro lnb does send fixed 10600h/10600v/9750h/9750v regardless of the voltage it is provided.
I'm not sure that I understand your question.
A quatro Ku-LNB has four fixed outputs: two (LV and LH) for the lowband: 10700-11700 MHz vertical and horizontal,
and two (HV and HH) for the high band: 11700-12750 MHz (Maybe the ranges are even somewhat bigger, as long as they are in IF-range between 950-2150 MHz.)

They output these signals regardles of the voltage on that output (therefore: FIXED outputs). In fact, usually an output doesn't have to carry a voltage at all, as long as the LNB gets its power through one (any!) of its other output ports. 10-12volts should be enough.

Is that what you wanted to know?

Greetz,
A33
 
Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
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That's nice! :):):)



I'm not sure that I understand your question.
A quatro Ku-LNB has four fixed outputs: two (LV and LH) for the lowband: 10700-11700 MHz vertical and horizontal,
and two (HV and HH) for the high band: 11700-12750 MHz (Maybe the ranges are even somewhat bigger, as long as they are in IF-range between 950-2150 MHz.)

They output these signals regardles of the voltage on that output (therefore: FIXED outputs). In fact, usually an output doesn't have to carry a voltage at all, as long as the LNB gets its power through one (any!) of its other output ports. 10-12volts should be enough.

Is that what you wanted to know?

Greetz,
A33
Some fixed polarity lnbs are specific port power only, it would be worth checking the manufacturer specifications or posting an image (or five ) of the item as well as is possible to ideltify.
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
That's nice! :):):)



I'm not sure that I understand your question.
A quatro Ku-LNB has four fixed outputs: two (LV and LH) for the lowband: 10700-11700 MHz vertical and horizontal,
and two (HV and HH) for the high band: 11700-12750 MHz (Maybe the ranges are even somewhat bigger, as long as they are in IF-range between 950-2150 MHz.)

They output these signals regardles of the voltage on that output (therefore: FIXED outputs). In fact, usually an output doesn't have to carry a voltage at all, as long as the LNB gets its power through one (any!) of its other output ports. 10-12volts should be enough.

Is that what you wanted to know?

Greetz,
A33

Yes, that is exactly what I wanted to know.
 
nadal liu

nadal liu

Regular Member
Messages
37
My Satellite Setup
120cm offset dishes for 124e and 128e with emp centauri profi multiswitch 9x16, and 5x20
,180cm prime dish with lo 10678 ku lnb for 110e bs/cs
My Location
Hong Kong
Some fixed polarity lnbs are specific port power only, it would be worth checking the manufacturer specifications or posting an image (or five ) of the item as well as is possible to ideltify.
I ordered two from ebay the following lnb.
Quattro HGLN 40mm LNB
 
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