Radio on LW (long waves)

SkyWatcher

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
128
Reaction score
98
Points
28
Age
47
My Satellite Setup
Comag SL65, Azbox Premium HD+, Azbox Mini Me, Techno mate Tm3000 D, Golden V8
My Location
London
Whoever reported that split programmes are finished is not correct.
Yep unless it happened today, I was listening to TMS recently and the midday shipping forecast, plus the daily service.
 

Topper

Amo Amas Amant Admin
Staff member
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
23,992
Reaction score
4,014
Points
113
Age
69
My Satellite Setup
Has gone to a good home elsewhere
My Location
Blackburn, Lancashire
Yep unless it happened today, I was listening to TMS recently and the midday shipping forecast, plus the daily service.
Yes and the recent test match was the last time it will ever happen again well with the shipping forecast at least
 

Lazarus

Retired Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
27,084
Reaction score
8,672
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
80cm Motorised.
Several small Dishes.
Much else.
My Location
North York Moors
Yes and the recent test match was the last time it will ever happen again well with the shipping forecast at least

At least we shan't have to endure any longer Jim Maxwells sardonic hyperbole when announcing it.
 

PaulR

Dazed and Confused Admin
Staff member
Joined
Jun 28, 2003
Messages
18,025
Reaction score
4,046
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
-----------See sig-----------
My Location
Wirral, NW UK and Vaucluse, France.
And I'll be able to listen to The Archers in mid France all the way through.
 

william-1

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
12,212
Reaction score
12,282
Points
113
Location
Epping Forest
My Satellite Setup
OP Gibertini 100 XP+ Inverto Black Ultra Lnb
Superior Dark Motor (160° max)
(50 east to 45 west)
Octagon SX88+Optima (A/B switch) Edision primo IP S2

Raven 88cm Mesh Dish + IBU Twin output
Stab100 H to H (120° max)
(53 east to 45 west)
Octagon SX88+ Ultra HD (A/B switch) Golden Interstar Alpha_X
My Location
Epping Forest Essex

deeptho

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
701
Reaction score
422
Points
63
Age
57
My Satellite Setup
Wavefrontier T90, Laminas 120cm, 2 other dishes; tbs 5927, tbs6904, tbs6909x, tbs6903x, tbs5990, tbs6981,tbs5927
My Location
Europe
Long wave may be disappearing but it is not dead yet. In recent weeks, I could receive Iceland (189 will close down in 2024?), bbc four (198 easy),
Polsky radio (225) and chaine 3 (252).

It is a pity that it will eventually close down. It is pretty cool to cover thousands of kilometers with a single transmitter and with pretty
stable reception. Of course, it is not easy to find radios that can receive it.

Medium wave seems to quite crowded with many low power stations (including pirates) coming in.

I use a magnetic loop antenna made from central heating tube, a cross country wireless amplifier, a spyverter,
an airspy and a computer to get sound. This gives me coverage between 60khz (or probably lower) and 30MHz with one
antenna and pretty clear signals (except for fading) once I found a good location for the antenna.
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
35,613
Reaction score
8,581
Points
113
Age
59
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
Likewise, one of the cars has no FM radio to speak of, I check the AM band for changes to the stations.


though Radio Caroline is the only one stored in the memory.
 

ozumo

te wo tsuite
Staff member
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
5,205
Reaction score
2,610
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
Raven mk2 zone 2 x4, Channel Master: 90cm x3, 1.2m x2, 1.8m PF. CM polar mount x2, Az/El x3.
My Location
South Durham
I use a magnetic loop antenna made from central heating tube, a cross country wireless amplifier, a spyverter,
an airspy and a computer to get sound. This gives me coverage between 60khz (or probably lower) and 30MHz with one
antenna and pretty clear signals (except for fading) once I found a good location for the antenna.
Did you make the antenna? If yes I would be interested to see photos or a design and give it a go myself. I'm quite surprised at how many SW stations an FM dipole in the loft pulls in but LW & MW performance is poor, a wire dipole is a little better but not great.
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
35,613
Reaction score
8,581
Points
113
Age
59
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK
Did you make the antenna? If yes I would be interested to see photos or a design and give it a go myself. I'm quite surprised at how many SW stations an FM dipole in the loft pulls in but LW & MW performance is poor, a wire dipole is a little better but not great.
I can send some info on what I have built here, though not until later in the week.
 

deeptho

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
701
Reaction score
422
Points
63
Age
57
My Satellite Setup
Wavefrontier T90, Laminas 120cm, 2 other dishes; tbs 5927, tbs6904, tbs6909x, tbs6903x, tbs5990, tbs6981,tbs5927
My Location
Europe
Did you make the antenna? If yes I would be interested to see photos or a design and give it a go myself. I'm quite surprised at how many SW stations an FM dipole in the loft pulls in but LW & MW performance is poor, a wire dipole is a little better but not great.
I might make a picture tomorrow (it is dark now).

It is quite easy to make.

I used 20mm diameter flexible pipe made to connect central heating radiators. This pipe
has a thin aluminium interior and a pvc coating on both sides of the aluminium.

I had a few pieces left over from 10 years ago. One was about 4 meter long. So I ground off the outer PVC layer for a cm or so
at each end. That is the dificult part (because a 4m long tube is not so easy to manipulate and the pvc is tougher than expected).

Then I drew a circle on the floor with a piece of chalk. The circle had a 4 meter circumference.
I then bent the tube onto the circle by hand and foot (gently step on it) to make it more or less flat
and in the right shape. The shape does not need to be a circle, but a circle maximizes the signal.

The next step was to take some flexible litz wire, cut from an old power cord (cut open the cord and inside you will find 3 such wires) and removed the insulation over for several cm to expose the copper wires. I wound this on top of the alumimum and added a garden hose fastener on top to squeeze the wire onto the pipe. This avoids the need for soldering. The other end of the flexible copper wires are attached to the amplifier. I attached the antenna in the attick of shed with a zip tie.

Note that such an antenna is directional. This matters for long wave and medium wave reception during day time. You can
point the antenna to "null out" some signals, e.g., ground waves of undesired strong transmitters or sources of interference.
At night the signals tend to come from the sky and there is no strong null for those signals.

The disadvantage of the zip tie attachment is that my antenna cannot be turned, but there is no room in the attic anyway for that
and the results is approx east-west reception, which suits me fine. I used 2 pieces of sma cable (20m and 6m)
for the antenna cable as location is important: far away from computers and electricity lines is better. It took some time to
find a suitable spot. I also added some ferrite sleeves in several places along the cable to stop common mode (may not be needed as the antenna is already not very sensitive to common mode).

This was actually my second such antenna and it above description is not entirely correct: it is for the antenna as it should be (and will
be after I fix it) and not how it actually is: I had no garden hose fasteners left and had to use screws to attach the wires. That
proved less than ideal. At one point there was a bad contact and the reception on medium wave suddenly was gone.
It was easy to fix (fasten screws). In the mean time, I ordered some extra garden hose fasteners, but mistakingly the wrong size.

The first antenna I made was only 2m diameter. I attached that one to a vertical pvc pipe. That pipe goes into a rusty tin can which
is nailed to a plank. That allows rotation by hand. Quick, dirty and ugly. I then made the bigger version to have a stronger signal on medium and long wave. The signal is even a bit on the strong side at night (gain must be set low or the airspy starts to generate spurious signals).

I think 4 m is about the max. Otherwise you may start to get problems at the higher frequencies.
However even with that version I receive FM (without the spyverter) and the 130Mhz band (planes)

About the antenna location: the attic is fine. Outside may be beter depending on the material of your house. There
is no need to mount it very high (except maybe for the higher bands).
 

ozumo

te wo tsuite
Staff member
Joined
May 26, 2020
Messages
5,205
Reaction score
2,610
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
Raven mk2 zone 2 x4, Channel Master: 90cm x3, 1.2m x2, 1.8m PF. CM polar mount x2, Az/El x3.
My Location
South Durham
Thanks, I will see what I can cobble together and give it a go :cool:
 

Channel Hopper

Suffering fools, so you don't have to.
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
35,613
Reaction score
8,581
Points
113
Age
59
Website
www.sat-elite.uk
My Satellite Setup
A little less analogue, and a lot more crap.
My Location
UK

deeptho

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
701
Reaction score
422
Points
63
Age
57
My Satellite Setup
Wavefrontier T90, Laminas 120cm, 2 other dishes; tbs 5927, tbs6904, tbs6909x, tbs6903x, tbs5990, tbs6981,tbs5927
My Location
Europe
Here are some pictures. The installation location is the attic above a dilapidated shed in which we keep some
junk that might come in handy some time (or not), including a lot of metal wire. That could affect reception, but
the location is a compromise: somewhat sheltered, easy to run a cable to and far enough from interference, still
reachable by ladder and out of sight.

The space is a bit cramped and so it was not even possible to find a location such that the big antenna would
fit in the picture.

What you see is therefore mainly the smaller one, attached on the vertical PVC tube with an mla-30- attached to
it. In the background you can see the large one, which is the same shape but bigger. I had not noticed before,
but the pipe for that one is actually slightly thinner (17mm diameter instead of 20mm; bigger may be better).

In the mean time, I have removed the smaller antenna. The MLA-30 is half the price of the well-brook and
is actually not too bad. Perhaps less sensitive on medium and long wave than the cross country wireless
and perhaps a little less linear.

Making a fair comparison (same channel on same antenna at almost the same time) would probably involve
building an identical antenna, and adding an antenna switcher. Too much trouble.



a.jpg
 

deeptho

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
701
Reaction score
422
Points
63
Age
57
My Satellite Setup
Wavefrontier T90, Laminas 120cm, 2 other dishes; tbs 5927, tbs6904, tbs6909x, tbs6903x, tbs5990, tbs6981,tbs5927
My Location
Europe
Here are some spectra captured this afternoon.

Very clear signal of radio 4 on long wavesdrpp_longwave.pngOn medium wave Caroline and various UK stations come in nicely:sdrpp_caroline.png

On short wave mi amigo and some Dutch and German (pirate?) stations were active. Lots of fading on mi amigo.

sdrpp_miamigo.png

On 20m lots of ham radio signals
sdrpp_20m.png

On 12m not much at this time (the same on the 27MHz band, but a few days ago there was a very strong signal from Tenerife for less than one minute and local stations come in well)
sdrpp_12m.png

And some traffic to air planes from Shannon radio (at night many international flights come in)sdrpp_shannon.png
 

deeptho

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Messages
701
Reaction score
422
Points
63
Age
57
My Satellite Setup
Wavefrontier T90, Laminas 120cm, 2 other dishes; tbs 5927, tbs6904, tbs6909x, tbs6903x, tbs5990, tbs6981,tbs5927
My Location
Europe
And here are some signals at midnight:
The first one shows reception of iceland on 189kHz. Audio quality is poor. Receiving it "loud and crackely" (to quote René Artois)
sdrr_iceland.png

The second one is the crowded medium wave with pirate station "Radio Augusta" coming in strong (but it just went off air as I am
typing this). Officially that one is from Ivory coast (ha ha), many people gamble it is from Belgium or the Netherlands, but I gamble it
broadcasts from the UK. They have a cool website and interesting programs.

sdrr_augusta.png

Another stations coming in nice and strong : Power 927 Milan (927kHz) and somewhat less nicely: Charleston Berlin (5140kHz)
Many low power AM stations as well.
 

solly

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
6,416
Reaction score
3,659
Points
113
Age
53
My Location
Tel Aviv, Israel
any get radio from germany from belgium ?
 

rodscha

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
385
Points
83
Age
68
Location
carcassonne south France(Languedoc)
My Satellite Setup
See signature
My Location
carcassonne south france,700ks south of Paris ,300k N of Barcelona
Whereabout in "Europe" are you?
The attic looks like Northern France or western Belgium....
 

dxhound2003

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
677
Reaction score
197
Points
43
Age
67
My Satellite Setup
Az Box Premium.
Triax 110 cm dish motorised.
Black Ultra LNB. Nov 2011 DrD F15.
My Location
Dundalk Ireland
Just a note on Shannon Volmet on 8957 kHz. That is an aviation weather broadcast, not Air Traffic Control talking to planes. Volmet stations use automated voices to read out weather conditions at various airports. Best reception of Shannon Volmet in the UK and Ireland will probably be on 5450 and 3413 kHz. RAF Volmet is on 5505.

Shannon (Shanwick) ATC has various frequencies including 5598 and 5649 kHz which can be heard well during the day and night in Ireland, but of course only when they are conducting communications with planes.

The 8992 frequency that the SDR is tuned to is one of the High Frequency Global Communications System frequencies used by the US Air Force.

 

Pride Of Cucamonga

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
269
Reaction score
105
Points
43
My Satellite Setup
Cheap piece of junk Spanish (Tecatel) 120cm(x110) dish, Inverto Ultra twin LNB and Sky HD box.
My Location
Valencia (city)
Goodbye Long Wave :(

"A private firm, Arqiva, owns and operates the Droitwich transmitter in Worcestershire as well as two additional transmitters in Scotland. All three broadcast Radio 4 long wave on the 198 kilohertz frequency."

doesn't this cause interference?
 

Fisty McB

Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
433
Reaction score
630
Points
93
My Satellite Setup
See my signature...
My Location
County Tyrone, N. Ireland
I've dabbled a bit in LW, MW & SW DXing myself over the years. The big problem over the last 20 years or so has been the increasing amount of man-made interference that was already at excessive levels, mostly from cheap Chinese made electronics that pretty much crap on every first-world regulation regarding causing harmful interference to other electronics but where local regulators (like Ofcom in the UK) have done sweet FA to try and address. I've built my own tuned loop aerials/antennas for long wave & medium wave reception (as opposed to the untuned loops by deeptho) as well as the "mini-whip" based on the work of Dutch amateur PA0RDT and both work very well when man-made interference is not that big of an issue - when such interference is an issue, the directional properties of a loop aerial/antenna can be helpful, but even in some very difficult conditions it can be pretty much impossible to overcome - that's why many still involved in the hobby get mobile and go out listening in local parks, fields etc. well away from (mostly) interference caused by mains AC powered devices.

But as for what's on the bands themselves, the blunt truth is that very few people are still listening to broadcasts on LW & MW these days (with some very odd exceptions), partly because of interference (both the man-made mentioned above as well as other transmitters interfering co-channel & adjacent channel) and partly because of sound quality. In the latter case, most modern audiences in the western world don't want a muffled, mono station** to listen to music if they can help it - it's still tolerable for speech based stations, but those transmissions are also in the process of getting wound down as the costs of broadcasting on multiple platforms bite into costs. Recent data in the UK seems to suggest that stations switching off their MW transmissions to be available only on DAB have not seen any significant difference in their audience figures according to the quarterly RAJAR publications, so it's an easy cut to make where you don't appear to lose any listeners, especially as the cost per listener for AM broadcasts is now higher than all other terrestrial platforms.

Finally WRT the three TXs on 198 kHz - in theory, synchronised networks (as they are often referred to) if done correctly, there should be no interference by receiving more than one TX of the same programme on the same frequency but this is very difficult to do. In practice, even with the best of technical efforts there will be "mush zones" where two or more signals on the same frequency of the same programme will come to the receiver at very slightly different times giving an echo effect if the difference is very small, but if the time gap is significant (for example, the programme it the transmitter sites is not properly synchronised to go out at the exact same time) this can range from the sound being very muffled right up to as if someone is just repeating what they've already said about 0.1-1 seconds later.

This is why the BBC Radio 4 LW network has a few low powered MW fillers in places where two of the LW transmitters can be received with similar strengths to overcome this problem. There are similar synchronised networks in place for BBC Radio 5 Live & TalkSport, but they have an advantage of having two high-powered MW frequencies each meaning that the distances between TXs on the same frequency can be further apart with another TX on the other frequency used on another TX between the other two, solving much of the "mush zone" issues although some still exist. As a result during daytime, reception is fine in most cases except well outside the service areas of the transmitters, but at night it is still important to make sure that TXs on the same frequencies are well synchronised, otherwise co-channel reception from another TX in the chain can ruin reception even in an otherwise strong (groundwave) signal location.
 
Top