New Inverto KaKu lnb

[Vipersan]

Ok ..
Got time today to refit the XMW at the focus on Carl..
First thing to say is there ARE substantial differences between the XMW and Inverto ...and for the most part I believe these are down to the PLL ability of the XMW over the DRO of the Inverto..
Yes I'm very much fringe on 16E particularly and this is where the differences are most pronounced..
Both lnbs are similar in gain that much I can testify to...but it's what the 2 lumps do with the signal that's important..
Since I fitted the Inverto I have tried in vain to lock Burkino info TV and NASSR Tchad ....and not once over several days of trying was this possible..
With the XMW back at focus both channels instantly locked...
There is a tradeoff however ..
I can no longer lock the TMF mux ...which although very much fringe and lock was infrequent ..WAS possible for portions of the day on the Inverto ...
I tried this again just before swapover ...and TMF was there on the inverto but breaking up ..
On the XMW ..showing below 8db and no possibility of a lock..
So both lnbs have the advantages and disadvantages ...I cannot therefor definatively say which is better..??
both are currently on Carl though only the XMW or the Inverto can occupy the sweet spot.
Chances are I'll keep both on him...
As to who gets pole position ..I have yet to decide..
rgds
VS

...Burkino now breaking up a little just like Zorubas image above ...but the XMW is just about hanging on to it..

 

[Vipersan]

Ponny, I may be mistaken, but I don't see a PLL IC anywhere for Ka. Only for Ku (T1015). Therefore only DRO.

Is it possible I wonder that Inverto in it's wisdom employs PLL lower down the chain ..ie at an IF conversion stage in the Ka band ...
A sort of compromise ??
of course this would require a ridiculous level of stability of the early stage DRO Pill oscillator ...as it cannot be influenced in lock terms by PLL feedback ...or can it ?
I guess some sort of varicap diode arrangement inside the osc chamber might accomplish this ...but ultimately for true PLL lock and stability the mixed signals have to be contolled fully ..both in the osc and the rf signal stages to produce a totally stable IF locked within a few 10s of Hz ...
Perhaps there is PLL lock ...but due to using a DRO rather than a synthesized pll locked osc ...the lock is in the 100s of hz rather than 10s..
ie a compromise ??
Gawd I wish I had a schematic of this lnb..

 

[Llew]

Maybe a microwave engineer could help on this one, but all I see in the DRO area is the usual Wilkinson divider from the DRO splitting the oscillator output to mix with the Ka H and V RF paths and the resultant O/P thence to the A7522 switch matrix IC.
If as you say there's PLL at IF, I haven't checked where it might be happening

 

[Ponny]

Hallo,
ich habe einmal einen Vergleichstest mit der PLL LN Typ MCL-KP04 und der Inverto KA-Band LNB durchgeführt.
Dazu nutzte ich den Problemtransponder auf 21534 mit einer Symbolrate von 1000. Die BER war bei beiden beim Vergleichspegel 0. Doch ein Störungsfreierempfang war mit der PLL LNB schon bei 11 dB möglich. Bei der Inverto KA-Band LNB waren 12,9 dB notwendig. Der Test wurde an der Laminas AS 1800 und der TBS Karte 6983 durchgeführt.
Ponny

Hello there,
I once conducted a comparative test with the PLL LN type MCL-KP04 and the Ka-band LNB Inverto.

For this I used the problem transponder to 21534 at a symbol rate of 1000. The BER was similar for both the comparison level 0. However, an interference-free reception was with the PLL LNB possible even at 11 dB. The Ka-band LNB Inverto 12.9 dB were necessary. The test was performed on the laminas AS 1800, and the TBS map 6983.


Ponny

 

[Trust]

@ Lew / Vipersan
Notice , the X-tal from the under board is removed
This is how it looks in the Ku Octagon OTLSO PLL twin lnb .View attachment 86633

 

[Llew]

@ Lew / Vipersan
Notice , the X-tal from the under board is removed
This is how it looks in the Ku Octagon OTLSO PLL twin lnb .View attachment 86633 View attachment 86634 View attachment 86635

Thanks for that Trust. So two separate Ku PLL oscillator circuits, with one crystal used?

 

[remlap]

VS in situations like that I think price needs to factor into it.

 

[Trust]

Thanks for that Trust. So two separate Ku PLL oscillator circuits, with one crystal used?

I was testing it by changing the X-tals for ATV .
The X-tal at the under board is removed , at both boards were X-tals

 

[Llew]

I was testing it by changing the X-tals for ATV .
The X-tal at the under board is removed , at both boards were X-tals

Ah, just noticed the Xtal frequency ;)

 

[Vipersan]

Well ...
off on a different tack atm ..
Had the ladders out as it isn't raining..
the Inverto has been removed from Carl and am trying to lock ...well ..anything at 16E ...with it currently on a usals driven 1M offset dish ..
At this point ...anything would be acceptable ..
Keep in mind I am at the fringe here..
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

So Nothing locks solid ..
very occasional audio bursts from Golf ..
The stongest signal is from Sikka ...but will not lock
Nor will Electron at 8.1db
or STV at 8.2db
or Vision4 at 9.1db
These tests were done using the F15 with a 1m dish..
I expect at least a couple of them would lock using the SX6 at those levels ...but the F15 as you know from earlier reports does not like the Inverto ...
I'll now shift over to 7E and test there..
rgds
VS

 

[Eric123]

... and the Inverto Ka/Ku LNB "does not like" the DVB-S2 Pilot OFF channels.

 

[Vipersan]

Results at 7E are a little better ..
Same set up ..and the Muvi mux is solid at 10.1db on the F15
TPA solid at 11.1db F15
LC2 no lock unlockable F15 averaging 9.6 db (probably would lock on SX6)
TV2S locked at 11.3 db F15
In conclusion ...
I guess the Inverto and a 1M dish plus an SX6 receiver would give acceptable 7E Ka results at my location..
rgds
VS

In fact ..just jumped to SX6 prestored channels using a munual A/B switch ...and LC2 did indeed lock on the SX6

 

[Vipersan]

So ..the same trick for 16E ..using the F15 to power the motor into position ..then switching away using the A/B switch to the SX6 ..
Using prestored channels ..
Locks :-
Sikka Solid
Vision4 - 50% of the time
Golf ..occasional audio only
But nothing else..
1Mtr is insufficient here for 16E Ka
regardless of the lnb..
rgds
VS

 

[Llew]

So ..the same trick for 16E ..using the F15 to power the motor into position ..then switching away using the A/B switch to the SX6 ..
Using prestored channels ..
Locks :-
Sikka Solid
Vision4 - 50% of the time
Golf ..occasional audio only
But nothing else..
1Mtr is insufficient here for 16E Ka
regardless of the lnb..
rgds
VS

...so that more or less proves what you always suspected VS, that your QTH is not ideal for the 16E Ka beam, as you found with the XMW when we first did tests with it - my results have been always fairly consistent with the Triax TD88 where I am, either with the XMW or the Inverto.

 

[Vipersan]

...so that more or less proves what you always suspected VS, that your QTH is not ideal for the 16E Ka beam, as you found with the XMW when we first did tests with it - my results have been always fairly consistent with the Triax TD88 where I am, either with the XMW or the Inverto.

Indeed it does Llew ..
On 16E I am definately fringe ..and as you say this experiment just confirmed what we already suspected...
Rain and weather often plays a huge part in my reception ...and 1.5mtr is minimum requirement I suspect at my QTH ..
1.8mtr would be better I think ..
just a 100mile or so ..and the footprint drops off rapidly.
Also applies to ITN in ka A I suspect..
rgds
VS

 

[scopus]

Indeed it does Llew ..
On 16E I am definately fringe ..and as you say this experiment just confirmed what we already suspected...
Rain and weather often plays a huge part in my reception ...and 1.5mtr is minimum requirement I suspect at my QTH ..
1.8mtr would be better I think ..
just a 100mile or so ..and the footprint drops off rapidly.
Also applies to ITN in ka A I suspect..
rgds
VS

Looking at the footprint, Manchester and Stoke definately fringe, Not bad here on the greg but a bit of rain and that's it, gone. I do well on 7E quite strong here.

 

[pride21]

hi all tried the new Ka/Ku lnb just now, its raining at the moment so did not expect anythink to come in tried 7E got 2S TV on 21563H at 87%,TPA on 21571H at 85% and Muvi mux on 21749H at 81% did not lock LC2 on 21584H then I went to 16E Asonga on 21537H is 57%,Boom TV is 77%,Electron on21550H is 72% and Golfe on 21582H at 63% the others are not strong enough,all tested on the 5402HD tried on a spare 5302HD zilch the Ku is not as strong as the black ultra but that might be there is not a lot of play where as the black ultra has a fair range to get the sweet spot.

 

[Archived-1]

Anyone still wanting one get your order in, another batch.

 

[Ponny]

Hallo,
hier ein Video in dem alle empfangbaren Programme im Ka-Band auf Eutelsat 16A mit der Inverto Ka + Ku-Band LNB gezeigt werden. Es werden alle Programme des Satelliten Eutelsat 16A Störungsfrei im Ka-Band empfangen.
Empfangshardware:
- LAMINAS AS 1800
- Inverto Ka + Ku-Band LNB
- Receiver Openbox SX 6 (Openbox SX4 Base)
Ponny


Hello there,


here's a video in which all receivable channels are shown in the Ka band on Eutelsat 16A with the Inverto Ka + Ku-band LNB. It will receive all programs of the satellite Eutelsat 16A smoothly in Ka-band.


Reception Hardware:
- LAMINAS AS 1800
- Inverto Ka + Ku-band LNB
- Receiver Openbox SX 6 (Openbox SX4 Base)


Ponny