News from a 28e revenant :O)

rodscha

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
1,469
Reaction score
422
Points
83
Age
69
Location
carcassonne south France(Languedoc)
My Satellite Setup
See signature
My Location
carcassonne south france,700ks south of Paris ,300k N of Barcelona
Labour won't stop the change to a new technique even if it's makes it harder for those outside the intended coverage area to watch the programs intended for the UK.
ok sorry then...We hope we get an affordable pay offer in this case!
 

Pride Of Cucamonga

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
278
Reaction score
106
Points
43
My Satellite Setup
Cheap piece of junk Spanish (Tecatel) 120cm(x110) dish, Inverto Ultra twin LNB and Sky HD box.
My Location
Valencia (city)
Look in the table I posted. There you can see the difference in C/N needed to get a picture depending on which technique used.
The strength of the transmitted signal is the same but the signal needed for the receiver to produce a picture is higher when using 8PSK.
that's interesting, so DVBS2 QPSK is actually more robust than DVBS at the same FEC
 

ocean04

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
227
Reaction score
369
Points
63
Location
Vaasa
My Satellite Setup
3m 28.5E (53E-8W), 2.4m Aerial AS24 (68.5E-47.5W), Edision OS MIO 4K, Octagon SF8008, Vu+ Zero 4K..
My Location
Western Finland (63N 22E)
converted from DVB-S FEC-5/6 to DVB-S2 8PSK FEC-2/3. The SNR required for the former is 6.5db while the latter is 6.6db - essentially no real difference as far as reception goes.
That's not true. SNR required for DVB-S FEC-5/6 is 5.1db. DVB-S2 8PSK FEC-2/3 it is 6.6db. Difference 1.5.
Correct table is here: The Effect of FEC - BATC Wiki

12383H was fine here when it was DVB-S 5/6, but now it requires 1.5db more and only works later in the evening / night..
 

Nalleman

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
313
Reaction score
238
Points
43
Location
Motala Sweden
My Satellite Setup
1,8 Channel Master, Black Pro LNB with CM feedhorn for 28 E which is my main interest when watching TV. VU+ DUO 4K SE, VU+ DUO 2, Octagon SF8008 and Vantage 8000 S and TS receivers. Fixed dishes at: 42 E (0,75 m), 28,2/28,5 E (1,8 m), 19,2 E (1,5 m), 13 E (1,1 m), 9 E (0,7 m), 5 E (1,2 m) and 1 W (0,7 m).
My Location
Sweden
that's interesting, so DVBS2 QPSK is actually more robust than DVBS at the same FEC
There seems to be different opinions according to the table I found and the one ocean04 linked to in his answer above.
However even in that table DVB-S2 QPSK seems to be a bit "friendlier" than DVB-S.
 

Nalleman

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
313
Reaction score
238
Points
43
Location
Motala Sweden
My Satellite Setup
1,8 Channel Master, Black Pro LNB with CM feedhorn for 28 E which is my main interest when watching TV. VU+ DUO 4K SE, VU+ DUO 2, Octagon SF8008 and Vantage 8000 S and TS receivers. Fixed dishes at: 42 E (0,75 m), 28,2/28,5 E (1,8 m), 19,2 E (1,5 m), 13 E (1,1 m), 9 E (0,7 m), 5 E (1,2 m) and 1 W (0,7 m).
My Location
Sweden
That's not true. SNR required for DVB-S FEC-5/6 is 5.1db. DVB-S2 8PSK FEC-2/3 it is 6.6db. Difference 1.5.
Correct table is here: The Effect of FEC - BATC Wiki

12383H was fine here when it was DVB-S 5/6, but now it requires 1.5db more and only works later in the evening / night..
It seems 1,5 dB more is too much since I still get 12382 without problems.
The limit here was around 6,8 dB when in DVB-S 5/6.
Now I have 7,7 dB and the reception is fine with a difference of 0,9 dB.
Don't know where the limit is with the new parameters yet.
 

ocean04

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
227
Reaction score
369
Points
63
Location
Vaasa
My Satellite Setup
3m 28.5E (53E-8W), 2.4m Aerial AS24 (68.5E-47.5W), Edision OS MIO 4K, Octagon SF8008, Vu+ Zero 4K..
My Location
Western Finland (63N 22E)
The limit here was around 6,8 dB when in DVB-S 5/6.
Where do you get that value from? db value is displayed incorrectly in most receivers. VU+ db value you can't trust at all.
SF8008 (silabs) should be good. You can check 12129V DVB-S 5/6, lock should be around 5.0 - 5.2 in SF8008
 

Nalleman

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
313
Reaction score
238
Points
43
Location
Motala Sweden
My Satellite Setup
1,8 Channel Master, Black Pro LNB with CM feedhorn for 28 E which is my main interest when watching TV. VU+ DUO 4K SE, VU+ DUO 2, Octagon SF8008 and Vantage 8000 S and TS receivers. Fixed dishes at: 42 E (0,75 m), 28,2/28,5 E (1,8 m), 19,2 E (1,5 m), 13 E (1,1 m), 9 E (0,7 m), 5 E (1,2 m) and 1 W (0,7 m).
My Location
Sweden
Where do you get that value from? db value is displayed incorrectly in most receivers. VU+ db value you can't trust at all.
SF8008 (silabs) should be good. You can check 12129V DVB-S 5/6, lock should be around 5.0 - 5.2 in SF8008
Will try my SF8008 which has a much less sensitive tuner than the VU+ DUO 4K SE tomorrow.
With the Octagon I can't get 11053 H 24/7. With the VU+ I get it unless it rains heavily.

As for 12382 H I can simply use the percentage shown in the VU+ DUO2/DUO 4K SE.
On the DUO 2 when DVB-S 5/6 the picture started to break up at around 42 %.
The value now is 46 % (was 48 % when I wrote my previous post) on the DUO2 due to rain and the picture is stable.

On the 4K SE when DVB-S 5/6 the picture started to break up at 38 %. When DVB-S2 8PSK and FEC 2/3 the break up starts at 42 % (has seen this on 12168 V, 12226 H and 12363 V).
A difference of only 4 percent can't be equivalent to 1,5 dB.
 
Last edited:

4wd

Getting the picture
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
2,246
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
Will try my SF8008 which has a much less sensitive tuner than the VU+ DUO 4K SE tomorrow.
With the Octagon I can't get 11053 H 24/7. With the VU+ I get it unless it rains heavily.
Was thinking replacements for my aging VU solo2's > SF8008 .... then read risk of 'much less' sensitive that what VU can do?
So not really recommended?

------------------

Ref. the ongoing tech discussion, 2 examples of absolute bottom line for reception, on my VU Solo2.
Any opinion on how these VU's dB readings relates to other equipment \ pro measurements?

10818 V (BBC 1) DVB-S2/8PSK 23000 3/4 : 7.7 dB (48%)
12129 V (Yesterday) DVB-S/QPSK 27500 5/6 : 5.1 dB (31%)

ps, the good dose of a few extra dB's from a few days ago dwindled away, so it's back to struggle with BBC's (2E) & especially ITV hd's (2G).
 

Attachments

  • 20240708_201908.jpg
    20240708_201908.jpg
    939.3 KB · Views: 29
  • 20240708_202224.jpg
    20240708_202224.jpg
    851.7 KB · Views: 23

4wd

Getting the picture
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
2,246
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France

4wd

Getting the picture
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
2,246
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
Arghhh! Back to the mm tweaks to try catching that missing 0,01 dB lol++
Wimbledon effectively sabotaged here during long periods, even many spot non-HD's are difficult vs previous years.
Someone must have done a good job restricting beams and coverage, which is fine, it's their job and duty.
 

Attachments

  • 20240709_183750.jpg
    20240709_183750.jpg
    973.7 KB · Views: 19
  • 20240709_191200.jpg
    20240709_191200.jpg
    525.5 KB · Views: 25
Last edited:

Nalleman

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
313
Reaction score
238
Points
43
Location
Motala Sweden
My Satellite Setup
1,8 Channel Master, Black Pro LNB with CM feedhorn for 28 E which is my main interest when watching TV. VU+ DUO 4K SE, VU+ DUO 2, Octagon SF8008 and Vantage 8000 S and TS receivers. Fixed dishes at: 42 E (0,75 m), 28,2/28,5 E (1,8 m), 19,2 E (1,5 m), 13 E (1,1 m), 9 E (0,7 m), 5 E (1,2 m) and 1 W (0,7 m).
My Location
Sweden
Arghhh! Back to the mm tweaks to try catching that missing 0,01 dB lol++
Wimbledon effectively sabotaged here during long periods, even many spot non-HD's are difficult vs previous years.
Someone must have done a good job restricting beams and coverage, which is fine, it's their job and duty.
The UK beams of 2F and 2G are weak here now. Can get all channels except those on 11053 H but with a narrow margin.
2E UK beam is better but weaker than usual.
The European beam on 2F is considerably stronger than usual at the moment. Don't know if this affects reception of the UK beam?
 

rodscha

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
1,469
Reaction score
422
Points
83
Age
69
Location
carcassonne south France(Languedoc)
My Satellite Setup
See signature
My Location
carcassonne south france,700ks south of Paris ,300k N of Barcelona
Arghhh! Back to the mm tweaks to try catching that missing 0,01 dB lol++
Wimbledon effectively sabotaged here during long periods, even many spot non-HD's are difficult vs previous years.
Someone must have done a good job restricting beams and coverage, which is fine, it's their job and duty.
same here,have to do with other satellites.Only the Great & talking & pbs remain,no tennis.
 

4wd

Getting the picture
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
2,246
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
How things have changed, picture from France winter 2017, kept reception of most spot channels even under such conditions.
 

Attachments

  • snow.jpg
    snow.jpg
    178.6 KB · Views: 15

Nalleman

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
313
Reaction score
238
Points
43
Location
Motala Sweden
My Satellite Setup
1,8 Channel Master, Black Pro LNB with CM feedhorn for 28 E which is my main interest when watching TV. VU+ DUO 4K SE, VU+ DUO 2, Octagon SF8008 and Vantage 8000 S and TS receivers. Fixed dishes at: 42 E (0,75 m), 28,2/28,5 E (1,8 m), 19,2 E (1,5 m), 13 E (1,1 m), 9 E (0,7 m), 5 E (1,2 m) and 1 W (0,7 m).
My Location
Sweden
2E, 2F and 2G UK beams back to normal levels now!
 

4wd

Getting the picture
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
1,695
Reaction score
2,246
Points
113
My Satellite Setup
5 W, 9-13-19-28 E
My Location
Bergen, Norway \ Alpes Maritimes, France
2E, 2F and 2G UK beams back to normal levels now!
Same here south france. After all the hours and days of fineadjusting and nudging, went out today and did the final tightening of all bolts & nuts.
 
Top