Astra 2E: Iberia & Balearics Reports

[Archive4]

very interesting that 1.1 shows 2e above 2f at approx 12:30 while 1.8 shows below.

do you want the borrowed eye to check if your 1.8 is correctly alligned

 

[Huevos]

very interesting that 1.1 shows 2e above 2f at approx 12:30 while 1.8 shows below.

do you want the borrowed eye to check if your 1.8 is correctly alligned

Alignment is spot on for both dishes. What you are seeing is the magic of the Black Ultra single in band D. Also the Black Ultra is miles better at resolving 8PSK transponders in band D. Have a look at this...

 

[Huevos]

Also the Black Ultra is miles better at resolving 8PSK transponders in band D.

Actually I can't be certain of this because the LNB wasn't the only difference in the chain. I'm going to try a direct run from the 1.8m to the receiver without any switches etc.

 

[Acuario]

Here in 'Fringe land' I'm definitely seeing variations - for example the lower frequencies (below 10818) were impossible to view due to breakup after approximately 8pm.
Last night no breakup at all, even the HD channels were perfect.
As it is unlikely there are changes in power output there has to be another explanation.
Two that I can think of - atmospherics or the position on 2E in its 'box'. We have had clear skies here so weather shouldn't be a factor.
I can't remember where the data is for the movements - can someone enlighten me?
I would like to keep a check to see if there is correlation between the position and the reception.

 

[davidcmadrid]

http://www.ses.com/4405429/tool/centerofbox

Appears they have no plans to move it from 28.3 for the moment.

 

[Huevos]

Two that I can think of - atmospherics or the position on 2E in its 'box'. We have had clear skies here so weather shouldn't be a factor.

Weather is just troposphere. Lots of other layers to get through that could cause some sort of effect. But nothing noticeable here. Orbit is pretty stable now, satellite hardly moves over a 24 hour period. According to my records nothing has changed in the daily cycle since switch on. To me it just sounds like a case of a dish that is too small. And when that is the case even a couple of tenths of a dB make a huge difference.

 

[Archive4]

Actually I can't be certain of this because the LNB wasn't the only difference in the chain. I'm going to try a direct run from the 1.8m to the receiver without any switches etc.

Hi Huevos, have you had time to make the direct run, and if so, have you noticed any significant difference?

 

[Huevos]

Hi Huevos, have you had time to make the direct run, and if so, have you noticed any significant difference?

Measured at the dish and it is the same... but...

These graphs are an average of all transponders... and I think what we are seeing is on the smaller dish is some QPSK transponders performing worse due to Badr5 interference, rather than 8PSK improvement. Specifically 10714 and 10758 perform worse on the smaller dishes compared to the other transponders.

The data for every transponder is available to everyone so feel free to interpret it how you choose.
http://satellites-xml.org/signal-graphs/28E-SNR-table.php

As far as how regular the satellite is I'd say almost 100%. Here is a graph of the last 24 hours mapped against the daily mean. And it is almost completely flat. The only time I've ever seen this graph divert from this is in a rain shower.

 

[RichardinSpain]

Hi All
After playing around testing for the last couple of weeks im quite happy with the signals here in Murcia on my 1.2 tecatel dish.. It's much better in fact than in the 2d days as i couldn't get bbc2 and ch5. Now i can get all the main channels all day, as usual stronger in the mornings weaker in the afternoon (but still receivable) and stronger again in the evening, 2f is slighlty stronger for me than 2e. Might think about getting a black ultra again to see if it makes any difference, did have one before but gave it away as it didn't make any difference to the main channels but it's woth a second go
Here are my signal levels taken at midday last week, threshold of receiver (gigablue quad) is 35%
One thing i have noticed which i don't really understand is on some channels, for example qvc 12031h it shows a -2 signal for the snr but has a picture, does anyone know why this is?

Astra 2E 12:00:00 Atra 2F
10714h 48 10964h 50
10729v 38 10994h 49
10744h 47 11023h 51
10758v 41 11053h 50
10773h 40 11068v 45
10788v 42 11097v 46
10803h 43 11126v 47
10818v 46
10832h 45
10876v 43
10891h 41
10906v 45

 

[Nagusia]

A few months ago Huevos said something about the Inverto Black Ultra being a much better option than an Invacrom with Raven feedhorn on my 1.5m Gibertini. I didn't think this was the case having tried both. Well, seeing as I haven't been receiving much of a signal since the changeover I decided to give the IBU another go. I think it was a different one to that used before but in any case I am happy to report about a 1 db improvement on the signal strength. Encouraged by that I spent another hour carefully tweeking and the improvement was around another db on most TPs. The changes were pretty miniscule and by that I mean seeing the effect of tightening a bolt half a turn on one side or the other. The elevation adjustments seems particularly sensitive. Anyway, I now get 7.7 db on 10906V and 6.7 db on 10803H which are the TPs I use for alignment at 18.30 this afternoon. The result is being able to see absolutely everything - all SD and HD channels with a quality level of over 66% on the Foxsat. The secret seems to be running a power cable up to the roof and not having to rely on the batteries of the Satlook and hence having plenty of time to experiment and get things as right when conditions are so sensitive.

 

[Huevos]

One thing i have noticed which i don't really understand is on some channels, for example qvc 12031h it shows a -2 signal for the snr but has a picture, does anyone know why this is?

Yes, error correction is more robust on that transponder (2/3) so can be resolved with lower SNR.

 

[Analoguesat]

Thats the map updated to here - apologies if Ive missed anyones report, but if I have please pm me & I'll get you added pronto .

 

[Analoguesat]

The latest bunch of reports from the sat&pcguy forum used on the map with permission. The Moroccan report is interesting!


A 1.2m satellite dish in southern tip of Catalonia near Mora D'Ebra is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E (Thanks Dorothy)
A 1.4m satellite dish in Balsicas is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thank you Paul)
A 1.4m satellite dish in Balsicas is receiving partial BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thank you Paul)
A "1.2m" satellite dish in Calpe is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E (Thanks George).
A 1.2m satellite dish in San Miguel de Salinas is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E, ITVs and C4s pixelating. (Thanks Trevor)
A 1.9m satellite dish in San Miguel de Salinas is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thanks Trevor)
A 1.3m satellite dish in Mazaleon, Aragon tip is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E (Thanks Rachel )
An 80cm satellite dish in Cajarc, Lot, France is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E with pixelation. (Thanks Andy)
A 90x100cm satellite dish in Camping Los Pinos Las Rotas Denia is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thank you Ian )
A 1.9m satellite dish in Alguena, Pinoso, Alicante is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thanks Mike)
A 1.2m satellite dish in Turon, 6 miles northwest of southern Spanish coastal town of Adra is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thank you Clive)
A 1.2m satellite dish in Baza, Granada is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thanks Kevin)
A 2m satellite dish in Morocco is receiving parital BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thanks Erv)
A 1m Famaval hi-gain satellite dish in Pego is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thank you Mike )
A 1.35m satellite dish (Tecatel) in Úbeda, Jaén is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thanks Juan)
A 85x95cm satellite dish Valencia city is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thanks Jonathan)
A 90x100cm satellite dish (1m) in Gandia is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E.
A 100x110cm satellite dish in Xativa is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E
A 100x110cm satellite dish in Javea is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E
A 100x110cm satellite dish in Betera, Valencia is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E
A 100x110cm satellite dish in Oliva is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E
A 1.25x1.35m Tecatel satellite dish in Javea is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E.
A 1.25x1.35m Tecatel satellite dish in Els Poblets is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E.
A 90x100cm satellite dish (1m) in Javea is receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E.


All just added - thanks to woborny for collating these reports.

 

[Huevos]

A 1.4m satellite dish in Balsicas is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thank you Paul)
A 1.4m satellite dish in Balsicas is receiving partial BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thank you Paul)
A 1.2m satellite dish in San Miguel de Salinas is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E, ITVs and C4s pixelating. (Thanks Trevor)
A 1m Famaval hi-gain satellite dish in Pego is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thank you Mike )
A 90x100cm satellite dish (1m) in Gandia is NOT receiving the BBC channels on Astra 2E.

If these don't work they aren't set up right.

 

[woborny]

If these don't work they aren't set up right.

Yes, I tell them so when I thank them for their reports they need a bit of adjusting based on other reception reports or by my own observations.

Been to quite a few which require a bit of work to make them receive the best signal possible - usually those poor soft aluminium wall brackets that have sections cut out of their wall plate (see attached) that make dish whole thing wobble like mad in the lightest of winds as there is noting to stabilise it against the wall

 

[Nagusia]

@Huevos. By your location reference I would say you were down in Murcia which seems to be an area with quite a strong signal from the 2E spot beam, judging by Analoguesat's map. I was wondering if you know what the explanation is for a footprint with such apparently random irregularities, hotspots and null areas. Is it by design or something instrinsic to the way satellites work?

 

[dxn]

The latest bunch of reports from the sat&pcguy forum used on the map with permission. The Moroccan report is interesting!


A 2m satellite dish in Morocco is receiving parital BBC channels on Astra 2E. (Thanks Erv)

That's hard to believe it's true, very strange. Many users reported they have no signal with much large dishes on south of Portugal and Spain and on Gibraltar also and this one that is further south have signal. I only believe it seeing...

 

[Huevos]

@Huevos. By your location reference I would say you were down in Murcia

Alicante.

I was wondering if you know what the explanation is for a footprint with such apparently random irregularities, hotspots and null areas.

I think the easiest way to explain is this. Transmission is at 10GHz. That has a wavelength of 3cm. When you are dead on axis all the signal from satellite arrives at the same time (in phase). But when you are in the first null the path between the feed and the left side of the reflector and down to you is 1.5cm longer than the path from the feed to the right side of the reflector and down to you. This means half the signal arrives completely out of phase with the other half and cancels it out (phase 180º). First hotspot is the opposite. A bit further off centre and the path to one side is 3cm longer than the path to the other. This causes all the signal to arrive as one pulse even though half of it has been delayed by one complete cycle (360º). Next null will be when the path length differs by 4.5cm (540º) and next hotspot at 6cm (720º). This is completely predictable for parabolic dishes, but beam shaping adds a lot more variables and makes it impossible for people like us who don't have access to design data to accurately predict how any beam might perform.

 

[Huevos]

That's hard to believe it's true, very strange. Many users reported they have no signal with much large dishes on south of Portugal and Spain and on Gibraltar also and this one that is further south have signal. I only believe it seeing...

If Portugal is first null and Morroco is first hotspot it's quite believable. Further east you've got Barcelona (2m dish) and Alicante 550km further south (1m dish). And Canaries, 4.5º off axis, able to receive on a 3m dish.

 

[PaulR]

Isn't Portugal, etc the second null? The first null appears to run roughly parallel with the Pyrenees on the Spanish side. This would make Morocco the second hotspot.