Advice Needed missing frequencies 30W

[Analoguesat]

You can forget 11491V & 11496H - your receiver isnt suitable for those two frequencies and you have no chance with them.

This graphic might give you some clues as to why one or two frequencies are missing - as the fec increases you need more signal, especially with DVB-S2 signals

 

[Mickha]

12130 is listed as Horizontal polarity, on lyngsat.
You also list a few frequencies as being 0% or jumping to over 70%, can you please explain.
You also list a number of channels being at 99%, probably the maximum signal strength, for the receiver, yet you still get no channels on 12226 V 27500 which is DVB-S.
The first thing I'd try is re-doing the connections, ensuring that the braid hasn't been cut off, when doing up the F Connector, which has happened to me before, due to the F Connector being too tight, for the cable.


Do you have access to another receiver, you can try, or another dish, pointing at 30W, to try your receiver on? Friend, or family member?

You still haven't answered whether the cable is going directly to your receiver, or via a Diseqc switch, or other set up, as your picture seems to show a box, with other dishes connected.

 

[brother9]

You can forget 11491V & 11496H - your receiver isnt suitable for those two frequencies and you have no chance with them.

This graphic might give you some clues as to why one or two frequencies are missing - as the fec increases you need more signal, especially with DVB-S2 signals

I see….. what a pity. I did not know the influence of the FEC. Still learning….. However, “ADAM792” reports (see 1st page of this thread) that 11491 & 11496 signals are “pretty weak” on his 80cm dish in Worcester, whereas “William-1” actually SHOWS 11496 at 80% on his 100cm Gilbertini in Epping Forrest!
So it is not impossible.
(I use a different, less sensitive, older tuner on the roof when searching/fine-tuning.)

 

[brother9]

12130 is listed as Horizontal polarity, on lyngsat.
You also list a few frequencies as being 0% or jumping to over 70%, can you please explain.
You also list a number of channels being at 99%, probably the maximum signal strength, for the receiver, yet you still get no channels on 12226 V 27500 which is DVB-S.
The first thing I'd try is re-doing the connections, ensuring that the braid hasn't been cut off, when doing up the F Connector, which has happened to me before, due to the F Connector being too tight, for the cable.

Do you have access to another receiver, you can try, or another dish, pointing at 30W, to try your receiver on? Friend, or family member?

You still haven't answered whether the cable is going directly to your receiver, or via a Diseqc switch, or other set up, as your picture seems to show a box, with other dishes connected.

You are absolutely right: 12130 actually is H.
12476H27500 DVB-S2 0% or 84-99% means that signal is (mostly) 84 to 99% but frequently drops briefly (<1 sec) to 0%!
You noticed “…at 99%, yet no channels on 12226 V 27500 which is DVB-S.” That is why this thread is headed “Missing freq”…. (smile). Can anyone explain this??
Correct observation: signals go via Disecq down to HD-tuner. HOWEVER, when testing on the roof I use a different, less sensitive, older tuner, directly connected by short cable to LNB (and screen). Still even NO signal at all on e.g. 12226!
I do not recall having a signal on a freq on the roof but not downstairs or v.v.
Disecq has 3 more LNBs on one oval dish. E.g. Astra-2E.
Connectors? OK, I can check them. But most signals get through correctly.

 

[brother9]

Connectors, eh? Hm… made me think. (Different, oval dish ALL freq on Astra-2E have a 99% signal. So Disecq works and cable, connectors are OK. BUT: if signal is weaker, then (bad) connections become critical. So I checked Eutelsat-9B signals: many freq NOT 99%, but e.g. 61% or 61-64% and still a good image (Mali, Togo, etc). However, cannot get a signal on 11747 other than 40% for 1/10th second, with all new JOYNE programs for Holland! I know that THAT LNB should be lower, but there is no room because of a skylight. And I do not want to lose Astra-2E signals. More important than JOYNE programs as all are already scrambled anyway: useless. If ever there is a calamity and cable-TV (and phone and Internet via cable!) does not work, there will be NO way to relay messages to the public as all PUBLIC stations are scrambled! Stupid!

 

[Mickha]

The first thing, I would do, is run a cable, directly from the LNB, to the receiver.
If that fails I would try a different LNB.
If that fails I would borrow another receiver, and try that.
Only by trial, and elimination, will you find the fault.
Have you got a DECT telephone? This has been known to affect some frequencies.

 

[Tururu]

When you can, put a current photo of the antenna you use for Hispasat[1].
Have to see......
The new support for the LNB.
As this antenna support the mast, the truth is curious.

Attached well to the multi-LNB antenna mount of 80cm with the counterweight brick, as seen in the photo[2].?
---------------
Cuando puedas, pon una foto actual de la antena que usas para Hispasat[1].
Tiene que verse.......
El nuevo soporte para el LNB.
Como esta el soporte de la antena al mastil, es curiosidad la verdad.

Sujetaste bien el soporte multi LNB de la antena de 80cm con el ladrillo de contrapeso, como se ve en la foto[2].?

PS: The typical fault of the switches (DiSEqC) is .... a mouth is broken, the rest OK.

PD: La averia tipica de los conmutadores (DiSEqC) es ....se rompe una boca, el resto OK.

 

[brother9]

When you can, put a current photo of the antenna you use for Hispasat[1].
Have to see......
The new support for the LNB.
As this antenna support the mast, the truth is curious.

Attached well to the multi-LNB antenna mount of 80cm with the counterweight brick, as seen in the photo[2].?
---------------
Cuando puedas, pon una foto actual de la antena que usas para Hispasat[1].
Tiene que verse.......
El nuevo soporte para el LNB.
Como esta el soporte de la antena al mastil, es curiosidad la verdad.

Sujetaste bien el soporte multi LNB de la antena de 80cm con el ladrillo de contrapeso, como se ve en la foto[2].?

PS: The typical fault of the switches (DiSEqC) is .... a mouth is broken, the rest OK.

PD: La averia tipica de los conmutadores (DiSEqC) es ....se rompe una boca, el resto OK.

View attachment 110279

Acabo de ver la repetición del final de Yo Soy del Sur Peque (canal Sur). ¡Perfecto! ¡Que bueno! Signal 99%. En ingles:
I went onto the roof today in spite of strong winds. Fitted a collar under horizontal fitting and a contraption between vertical and horizontal fitting for vertical fine-tuning (see photo). Someone calling out quality figures by telephone from the sitting room. Fine-tuning this dish is IMPOSSIBLE! Don't touch it or your signal has gone. Managed to get signal up to 82% (on 12245), but when tightening the bolts it changed again to 72-74%. Millimeters!! 0.1°...! THAT is impossible to control. Tried the other cable going down into the house: no change. New photo too large.

 

[Mickha]

That's the problem with Triax dishes, from what I've read, pretty good performance, but the brackets are very fiddly.
With a lot of patience, and carefull tightening, you might get it to align properly. You might have to tighten each bolt a little at a time, and very carefully, to stop it moving too much.

 

[Tururu]

@brother9
In general, the supports are tightened in sequence as an X-cross.
If you squeeze on one side, the antenna is unbalanced, always so, 3 millimeters and end of the signal.
Thanks for not saying how the glitches are solved (very large photo).
With practice you will be able to hold the antenna with the hand and to have signal of the satelite.
So the family can enjoy these channels.
--------
En general los soportes se aprietan en secuencia como un cruzado en X.
Si aprietas de un lado, se desajusta la antena, siempre es asi, 3 milimetros y fin de la señal.
Gracias por no decir como estan solucionadas las pegas (foto muy grande).
Con practica podras sujetar la antena con la mano y tener señal del satelite.
Asi la familia puede disfrutar de esos canales.

PS:

 

[brother9]

Gracias, amigo.
Point taken about tightening crews. Anyway, as shown in following photo, dish cannot move at all! Top is fixed by a piece of wood. LNB arm is supported by a stone under it: cannot move either. (But NEITHER - of course - when testing!) I added an adjustable bar between "ABOVE the middle" of the dish and support, but I concluded that I have to fit another such adjustable bar from "BELOW the middle".
Where is the satellite in the crazy situation of LNB pointing at top of dish (blue line in earlier photo) which actually gave a signal on highest number of frequencies?
Recapitulation: I tested with 2 LNBs (so with each having a cable), 2 receivers, 2 cables into the house, even 2 dishes. And still some freq. are missing a signal.
Signal quality reduced, even to zero, BEFORE it starts to rain (scatter).

@brother9
In general, the supports are tightened in sequence as an X-cross.
If you squeeze on one side, the antenna is unbalanced, always so, 3 millimeters and end of the signal.
Thanks for not saying how the glitches are solved (very large photo).
With practice you will be able to hold the antenna with the hand and to have signal of the satelite.
So the family can enjoy these channels.
--------
En general los soportes se aprietan en secuencia como un cruzado en X.
Si aprietas de un lado, se desajusta la antena, siempre es asi, 3 milimetros y fin de la señal.
Gracias por no decir como estan solucionadas las pegas (foto muy grande).
Con practica podras sujetar la antena con la mano y tener señal del satelite.
Asi la familia puede disfrutar de esos canales.

PS:

 

[Mickha]

You've tested your LNB, and cables, so the last test is your receiver.
Can you borrow a different satellite reciever, to test on your setup?

 

[Tururu]

.........as shown in following photo, dish cannot move at all! Top is fixed by a piece of wood. LNB arm is supported by a stone under it: cannot move either. (But NEITHER - of course - when testing!) I added an adjustable bar between "ABOVE the middle" of the dish and support, but I concluded that I have to fit another such adjustable bar from "BELOW the middle".

When you want to adjust a parabolic antenna, warn.
Because parabolic antennas are a child's play for some, never better said (photo of a future technician in these subjects).
-----------------
Cuando quieras ajustar una antena parabolica, avisa.
Porque las atenas parabolicas son un juego de niños para algunos, nunca mejor dicho (foto de un futuro tecnico en estos temas).

 

[brother9]

This week's gales had moved the 110cm dish, which had not been tightly fixed because of pending fine-tuning. So, during a brief dry spell I went up onto the roof and readjusted the dish by hand, then tightened the bolts properly. I noticed the arm being a bit loose. A bad fit. Maybe I have to tighten some bolts. But there is a stone under it anyway (see pictures). I moved it sideways a bit. Maybe the LNB was not looking at the right spot on the dish....
I noticed downstairs that (freq)V and H27500 gave same strong signal!? So I altered the skew. And now I got ALL frequencies except 11491 and 11496. Did I see a brief signal on both?? Which prompts the following questions:
Watching satellite 30W means that its axis of rotation is 30° off clockwise. To compensate the LNB, which is facing the dish, should be skewed anti-clockwise when viewing the satellite. Correct?
Skew does not seem to be very critical, 23.7° according to lyngsat.
The signals seem to have a threshold: quality below abt 45/50% and the indication drops to zero. What determines this threshold? LNB sensitivity? Tuner's sensitivity? Something else?
11503 (BOM-TV), 11498 and 11491 are close together, so when BOM is stronger, can I then expect an increased chance of getting the others?
Stations on 10770, never before found, are encrypted, but ALL have audible English sound! I briefly thought that they could be on another satellite, but they had adverts in Spanish, so even 10770 is now scanned successfully.

 

[Mickha]

Did you read Analoguesat's post, top of this page?
"You can forget 11491V & 11496H - your receiver isnt suitable for those two frequencies and you have no chance with them."

Most encrypted channels have various Audio options, which generally include the original sound track, which in a lot of cases is English, due to the popularity of the American television, and film, industry.

If you have such a low signal quality, and it drops to 0, then you still have a problem, probably with the LNB, cable, connections, or even your Diseqc set up, but also with your dish.

Have you tried sliding your LNB closer to the dish, and further away. if you have room?
You might also still need to make minor adjustments, to your dish, elevation, and position, to get the strongest signal quality. Is there anything blocking the signal?

Can you run a power extension, to the roof, and take your receiver, and a small television, up there, to make minor adjustments, with a small cable, run directly from your LNB, to receiver?

I never go to 30W, anymore, due to the lack of choice, for Movistar+ channels you're better off on 19.2E, as they have the HD versions.
I just moved my dish, to 30W, and all the available channels, for Europe, appear to be scanning in.

The Triax TD 110, is misleading, as from what I remember reading the dish is actually only 1M, but my memory could be faulty.

I did buy a Penta 85cm dish, for my parents, and that's performing better than I expected, plus it's easy to fit, and adjust, as a stand alone dish, or connected to a motor.

Keep persevering, with the Triax, and you should get there, providing you have the patience, which I haven't.

 

[a33]

I noticed the arm being a bit loose. A bad fit. Maybe I have to tighten some bolts. But there is a stone under it anyway (see pictures). I moved it sideways a bit. Maybe the LNB was not looking at the right spot on the dish....

To which point the LNB 'is looking' is not the most important thing (though you really can win a few percent with the LNB pointing exactly to the 'G-spot' of the antenna!).
Most important thing is that the Phase center of the feedhorn of the LNB is exactly in the focal point of the dish.
The way you manipulate the LNB-arm with stones doesn't sound like stable positioning at the focal point?

When the LNB is not at the focal point, the dish has to be (fine)tuned again to reflect the satellite signals of 30W to the spot where the LNB is now, at the expense of losing some of your signalquality.
So when you want to receive weak transponders: check if the LNB-feedhorn really is in the focal point.
Usually (but by no means allways) the manufacturers make the LNBarm in such a way, that the arm should not be manipulated extra...

Greetz,
A33

 

[brother9]

Did you read Analoguesat's post, top of this page?
"You can forget 11491V & 11496H - your receiver isnt suitable for those two frequencies and you have no chance with them."

Most encrypted channels have various Audio options, which generally include the original sound track, which in a lot of cases is English, due to the popularity of the American television, and film, industry.

If you have such a low signal quality, and it drops to 0, then you still have a problem, probably with the LNB, cable, connections, or even your Diseqc set up, but also with your dish.

Have you tried sliding your LNB closer to the dish, and further away. if you have room?
You might also still need to make minor adjustments, to your dish, elevation, and position, to get the strongest signal quality. Is there anything blocking the signal?

Can you run a power extension, to the roof, and take your receiver, and a small television, up there, to make minor adjustments, with a small cable, run directly from your LNB, to receiver?

I never go to 30W, anymore, due to the lack of choice, for Movistar+ channels you're better off on 19.2E, as they have the HD versions.
I just moved my dish, to 30W, and all the available channels, for Europe, appear to be scanning in.

The Triax TD 110, is misleading, as from what I remember reading the dish is actually only 1M, but my memory could be faulty.

I did buy a Penta 85cm dish, for my parents, and that's performing better than I expected, plus it's easy to fit, and adjust, as a stand alone dish, or connected to a motor.

Keep persevering, with the Triax, and you should get there, providing you have the patience, which I haven't.

Thank you for your advice. Yes, I have patience and I usually achieve the impossible. But as you list just about every parameter that can be wrong, it will be difficult to get it optimized. E.g. what can I change in the Diseqc setup? Nothing. And fine-tuning declination and elevation is a REAL problem! ONLY 11491V & 11496H are missing. Reception in Essex, so I am still hopeful.

There has been drizzle all day, so no tests today. I can take a different LNB and try to find a stronger signal closer to or further from the dish (measured wide 101, high 112 cm). Nothing is blocking the signal from the satellite. I am hesitant to take the HD-receiver to the roof, but I COULD do that. Usually I use the older tuner on the roof. Coax cable is one with copper netting, and old. And it lies on the roof, pinched by a window, down the stairs, into the room –for now. In the room there is a switch between 2 input cables, one output to HD tuner. It works perfectly.

A new (shorter) coax cable could go over the other side of the roof, through the wall to the receiver. Would that make much difference?

I could try BOM on 11503H1667, now 61-64% for a stronger signal, then try to get a signal at all on 11496H7884 and/or 11491V7522.

 

[Mickha]

When I'm fine tuning my dish I use a PC monitor, with a HDMI connection, many new PC monitors now have a HDMI connection, and my old Spiderbox 9000 HD satellite receiver.
I fix these up close to the dish, fortunately I have a ground based dish, and a conservatory very close.
When I set up my mothers I again used a PC monitor, and the Spiderbox, in her garden, but I did choose a dry day, something we have very rarely now.
By connecting everything up, near your dish, and using a short piece of WF 100 co-ax cable, direct from the LNB, to your receiver, you take everything else out of the equation, including old cable, and your Diseqc set up.

 

[brother9]

To which point the LNB 'is looking' is not the most important thing (though you really can win a few percent with the LNB pointing exactly to the 'G-spot' of the antenna!).
Most important thing is that the Phase center of the feedhorn of the LNB is exactly in the focal point of the dish.
The way you manipulate the LNB-arm with stones doesn't sound like stable positioning at the focal point?

When the LNB is not at the focal point, the dish has to be (fine)tuned again to reflect the satellite signals of 30W to the spot where the LNB is now, at the expense of losing some of your signal quality.
So when you want to receive weak transponders: check if the LNB-feedhorn really is in the focal point.
Usually (but by no means always) the manufacturers make the LNB arm in such a way, that the arm should not be manipulated extra...

Greetz,
A33

A previous arm of an 80 cm dish had rusted through because water got into the hollow centre. So I constructed a new arm from aluminium curtain rail. I got good results on Hispasat until I decided to upgrade to this TRIAX110.

The TRIAX arm is fixed at the lower end with a horizontal bolt and a vertical one. The horizontal one leaves one or two mm play. I will check if it can be remedied. As this arm is also hollow, it cannot be tightened much as it will bend. And for Hispasat the dish is leaning forward by 4°, so water can accumulate in the arm…..

I take it that the angle of LNB holder (supplied) directs it at the right “G-spot”; f=76cm (calculated). Are all LNBs equally sensitive?

I consider the connectors a bad problem: OK when everything is new, but a potential cause of signal loss when cable, connector and LNB and Diseqc are weathered. Any comments?

 

[brother9]

When I'm fine tuning my dish I use a PC monitor, with a HDMI connection, many new PC monitors now have a HDMI connection, and my old Spiderbox 9000 HD satellite receiver.
I fix these up close to the dish, fortunately I have a ground based dish, and a conservatory very close.
When I set up my mothers I again used a PC monitor, and the Spiderbox, in her garden, but I did choose a dry day, something we have very rarely now.
By connecting everything up, near your dish, and using a short piece of WF 100 co-ax cable, direct from the LNB, to your receiver, you take everything else out of the equation, including old cable, and your Diseqc set up.

As you say, few dry days now and then the roof is still a swamp…. As in earlier messages: the 20m (60’) electric cord is taken to the roof, as well as an old (non-HD) tuner and a PC monitor, which indeed has a HDMI connection. The monitor, rather heavy, is taken from a window (1st floor) up the ladder to the roof. Although the new HD-tuner is small, I dislike disconnecting it and taking it to the roof for safety reasons. But I will do it once so that signal strengths at the dish and at the TV (via Diseqc, 15m cable and switch) can be compared. Should be interesting. Maybe I will find the missing frequencies! I suppose different frequencies have different characteristics?